150 points map tab bollocks BONUS: Fragment tab is 75 points, totaling at 22,5$!

"
Char1983 wrote:
What about if it was only 2 stash tabs? What if there were zero stash tabs and you only had one character slot? Technically, you could still beat Shaper and Elder on that (realistically you probably wouldn't). Would that still be free2play?

You probably wouldn't be able to do it even in theory, just currency plus barebones map pool would take up your entire inventory, there's a bare minimum of storage space necessary to play the game.

Fortunately, it's below 4 tabs. You can play casually on that, go through the campaign and play some maps, if you want to stash gear for another char you can create it in advance and store items in his inventory so that takes up no space. You can manage pretty well if you aren't in a hurry, so it's free2play, just not free2compete.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
Last edited by raics on Dec 14, 2017, 8:00:39 AM
I have over 100 stash tabs and rest assured, I am not WINNING any more than I was already. In fact, 75 of them hardly ever get used of which 50 have never seen a single item yet in the years I've owned them. (excluding the Standard trashbin of course)
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
"
raics wrote:
"
Char1983 wrote:
What about if it was only 2 stash tabs? What if there were zero stash tabs and you only had one character slot? Technically, you could still beat Shaper and Elder on that (realistically you probably wouldn't). Would that still be free2play?

You probably wouldn't be able to do it even in theory, just currency plus barebones map pool would take up your entire inventory, there's a bare minimum of storage space necessary to play the game.

Fortunately, it's below 4 tabs. You can play casually on that, go through the campaign and play some maps, if you want to stash gear for another char you can create it in advance and store items in his inventory so that takes up no space. You can manage pretty well if you aren't in a hurry, so it's free2play, just not free2compete.
What raics is saying here lines up with my experience.

My second "playing" account for the past while has the 4 starter tabs, plus a currency tab, a div tab, an essence tab, and a map tab. That's it.

I consider all the specialized tabs as convenience items. I didn't have them for a fair while and was able to make it to maps and run for a while with just the 4 starter tabs. I found after a while that essences, div cards, and maps would start to encroach on other items; it was inconvenient to evaluate what to keep and what to sell on a frequent basis, so I splurged on the extra tabs. I have a low tolerance for such issues, though, so my sense is that's mostly on me.

If I had been determined to not buy specialty stash tabs, then I could have done that; I would have been stricter about keeping fewer items, about converting maps to a higher tier, about throwing away most essences, plus I would have been highly selective about which div cards to pick up.
Now that prestige classes will finally leave lab in 4.0, will GGG get it right this time or will they find new ways to repeat old mistakes?
Last edited by EnjoyTheJourney on Dec 14, 2017, 8:10:33 AM
Why are you guys still talking about WINNING and that kind of stuff? This is not the point.

You can play using no stash tabs, only picking up things and using currency as you go. You can probably even kill Shaper that way.
Sure. You CAN. But don't you think GGG kinda incentives you to store those things, especially when you don't know what they do? What about trade tab? Do you REALLY think people who don't know about 3rd part trading software (which is nowadays nowhere to be seen, given 90% of people are using premium stash tabs. Yes, there are statistics for this, google it up) aren't in disadvantage?

It is like arguing that there is nothing wrong in having real pay2win where players are getting items from money shop because you can play without buying them. You can, but company which created such system would prefer you buying them, so they incentive you to do so. Stash tab situation being more convoluted doesn't make it any less foul. The intention is the same - to make you spend money. This is what I hate about it.

And before someone says that this same logic can be used for cosmetics: no, it cannot because cosmetics aren't part of the game mechanics. Stash tabs are.

Once again: this isn't whenever you can or cannot play with 4 stash tabs. You probably can, but with current trend it seems GGG doesn't want you to, and given how many new items we get to store, they will make everything to make you get more.
THIS IS MY POINT.

I shouldn't be answering this because it is quite pointless, but I couldn't help myself

"
de99ial wrote:
Pay for convenience is much better description.

And YES! Its THEIR game and they give it for free - You dont need any "key for money" to gen into any part of the content, You dont need to buy some weapon that allows You to go further, You dont need to pay for anything. You learn to manage Your items and currency with limited space but if You want somthing more comfortable THEN You pay. And THIS IS VERY VERY OK.

Feedback is fedback NOT "bragging about what I WANT FOR FREE You greedy f*****s".


Yes, your opinion is correct and everyone else is just bragging (quite sure you want to check what this words means).

duh.

If you don't want to discuss our opinions, acknowledge that they are indeed valid to a degree or debunk them, what are you even doing here?

Use your own advice and go somewhere where you care to be. Otherwise I'll take your posts as ones trying to silence a opposing opinion while you have no argument against them.

Discuss and present rhetoric and arguments, or remain silent. I purposely ignored you previous post because quite frankly there was nothing to address in it.
Now I'm doing it because I'm annoyed by you turning this thread into a cesspool. If you continue with your way of posting, expect to get no response.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
https://joeduncan123.imgur.com
https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com
Last edited by Perq on Dec 14, 2017, 8:46:53 AM
"
Char1983 wrote:
start advertising it as free2try, which it is.


Wait, i know people here and on reddit say "The game only starts when you reach maps."
But in reality you can play the full story with any character without ever paying anything for it, no problem.

This is like saying Final Fantasy or whatever would be free2try if they locked the fight vs the Weapons (the enemies that appear at the end/after the story ends) as a 15$ DLC and gave the whole story for free.


Edit: @Perq: when i see 100 people in town with a 30$ weapon effect, that tells me that GGG had the ability to once pay one middle-class programmer for 1 month.
Does not tell me anything about their financial sustainability, sorry :/
Last edited by Antaiseito on Dec 14, 2017, 8:58:22 AM
"
Perq wrote:
Why are you guys still talking about WINNING and that kind of stuff? This is not the point.

Because it is the point. You 'can' still play a casual game on 4 tabs, if you aren't casual you should invest in your game, and PoE isn't pay2win because just spending cash isn't enough to instantly put a casual on the even ground with veterans, as simple as that.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
Last edited by raics on Dec 14, 2017, 9:09:17 AM
"
Perq wrote:
Why are you guys still talking about WINNING and that kind of stuff? This is not the point.

You can play using no stash tabs, only picking up things and using currency as you go. You can probably even kill Shaper that way.
Sure. You CAN. But don't you think GGG kinda incentives you to store those things, especially when you don't know what they do? What about trade tab? Do you REALLY think people who don't know about 3rd part trading software (which is nowadays nowhere to be seen, given 90% of people are using premium stash tabs. Yes, there are statistics for this, google it up) aren't in disadvantage?

It is like arguing that there is nothing wrong in having real pay2win where players are getting items from money shop because you can play without buying them. You can, but company which created such system would prefer you buying them, so they incentive you to do so. Stash tab situation being more convoluted doesn't make it any less foul. The intention is the same - to make you spend money. This is what I hate about it.

And before someone says that this same logic can be used for cosmetics: no, it cannot because cosmetics aren't part of the game mechanics. Stash tabs are.

Once again: this isn't whenever you can or cannot play with 4 stash tabs. You probably can, but with current trend it seems GGG doesn't want you to, and given how many new items we get to store, they will make everything to make you get more.
THIS IS MY POINT.

I shouldn't be answering this because it is quite pointless, but I couldn't help myself

"
de99ial wrote:
Pay for convenience is much better description.

And YES! Its THEIR game and they give it for free - You dont need any "key for money" to gen into any part of the content, You dont need to buy some weapon that allows You to go further, You dont need to pay for anything. You learn to manage Your items and currency with limited space but if You want somthing more comfortable THEN You pay. And THIS IS VERY VERY OK.

Feedback is fedback NOT "bragging about what I WANT FOR FREE You greedy f*****s".


Yes, your opinion is correct and everyone else is just bragging (quite sure you want to check what this words means).

duh.

If you don't want to discuss our opinions, acknowledge that they are indeed valid to a degree or debunk them, what are you even doing here?

Use your own advice and go somewhere where you care to be. Otherwise I'll take your posts as ones trying to silence a opposing opinion while you have no argument against them.

Discuss and present rhetoric and arguments, or remain silent. I purposely ignored you previous post because quite frankly there was nothing to address in it.
Now I'm doing it because I'm annoyed by you turning this thread into a cesspool. If you continue with your way of posting, expect to get no response.


Please no more tin foil hat nonsense. How can you say this? They create new content, that's great! Yet here you are telling us that they only create this content to sell stash tabs?

Oh, come on man! That's like saying they only build roads to sell wheels. I can't even type it without a chuckle.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Sorry, double post by accident.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Last edited by Xavathos on Dec 14, 2017, 9:10:46 AM
[/quote] Ad hominems about ones IQ levels aren't arguments (side note: you may want to hold yourself from using those given how well you spell words, uh).[/quote]

IQ is your level of logic, ability to see context.
Why would i be careful using it ?
Im a swede with mild dyslexic so i am aware of my bad spelling and im fine with it.

Around 10% of the population got 85 or less iq wich is so low that you are a danger to join the army, because you will not be able to understand tactics to fully and you cant change their mind since they cant put things in context as good, do you get mad by seeing iq because of that ? you tell me.
"
Xavathos wrote:

Please no more tin foil hat nonsense. How can you say this? They create new content, that's great! Yet here you are telling us that they only create this content to sell stash tabs?

Oh, come on man! That's like saying they only build roads to sell wheels. I can't even type it without a chuckle.


Then why not add some free stash tabs for free players? Why not add 1 premium stash tab for trading?

And no, I didn't say they ONLY create content to sell stash tabs.

"
raics wrote:
"
Perq wrote:
Why are you guys still talking about WINNING and that kind of stuff? This is not the point.

Because it is the point. You 'can' still play a casual game on 4 tabs, if you aren't casual you should invest in your game, and PoE isn't pay2win because just spending cash isn't enough to instantly put a casual on the even ground with veterans, as simple as that.


Ok, please tell me what my point is. derp

Marketing the game as ethical free to play means you don't need to pay money to play the game. All of its parts. There are no you should invest or you are expected to.
If you are expected to pay to play more than just a part of the game, it is called trial or demo. Trial is not a ethical free to play game.

But yeah, this wasn't even my point. Maybe some day someone will actually try addressing that, lel.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
https://joeduncan123.imgur.com
https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com
Last edited by Perq on Dec 14, 2017, 9:43:19 AM

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