defence question : 176% life + acro/phase acro or just go with 201% life

Hey guys,

So trying to decide if losing about 30% life is worth it to be able to gain acrobatics and phase acrobatics. I usually spend my time on the left side of the tree so not sure about the effectiveness of acro/phase acro in comparison to the new life values. At 176% life with fairly decent life rolls gear I would have probably 5.5k life at 100.

Thanks for your help!

What other layers of defense are you going to have? I guess Evasion and what skill/class?

You can also take just Acro ...
I think Phase acro is worth taking if you can stack more spell dodge through items/flask

honestly Id probably go with the life, 176% just sounds a little too low for my liking.

Knowing me Id find a way to get both, but if I had to choose I could see myself playing a 201% life build with no acro, I couldnt see myself playing a 176% life build regardless of defense stats, thats what Im basing it on, no real hard comparative math behind the opinion.

That depends on whether you expect to struggle more against one-shots or struggle more against enemy attack and spell DPS.

Personally, I almost always go with Acro/Phase Acro if I don't meaningfully get impacted by the penalties, because very often it is burst enemy DPS that kills my characters. Just 40% dodge is 1/0.6 = 66.67% more EHP against enemy Attack DPS, and naturally you get increasing proportional returns from additional dodge (same reason +/-maximum resistances is strong - with 75% already reduced, the remaining 25% acts as your basis moving forward, so each 1% is a bigger proportion of that 25%). For example Quartz Flask will then grant you 0.6/0.5 = 20% more EHP against enemy attack DPS.

However if you already have enemy DPS "solved" (one popular solution is Vaal Pact right now, but rumours say it's going to be nerfed to double leech rate instead of instant leech in 3.1.0, which may not provide as much defence against enemy DPS) then you'll probably want the maximum Life.

@Rakii I'll be going trapper with MoM, phase from tinkerskin, and have at least 1 open utility flask. Two if I dont run an Atziri's Promise which really isn't adding to much damage wise for this character and a quart + stibnite combination would probably be way better.

Currently the only required item for my build is Tinkerskin so I could add in more defensive items. Darkray Vectors is a possibility but I am not stalking frenzy charges beyond 3 base and 1 from the tree. Atziri's Steps are good for the additional spell dodge if darkrays doesn't pan out with just 4 charges. With only 1 required unique I have quite a few slots i can swap in and out for alternatives.

@adghar you make a great point looking at it from a mathematical approach. The effective HP overall really makes it look worth it. Combine in some extra items and flasks like Rakki mentioned and it probably turn out to be very advantageous to go that route. The math really brings out the EHP. I would say acro at least is wroth it.

@snorkle_uk I might be able to get to 192% + just acro. It leaves a jewel slot and 1 frenzy charge up for grabs. Moving around 4 more points might be a bit costly and would have to do some comparisons. Really the difference between 176 and 201 is about 500 to 600 life based on decent life gear. Probably pushing 800 to 1k with all T1 rolls. At 192 I would probably be between 5.9k and 6k compared to 201 which was closer to 6.1k

so far all great responses! I really appreciate it. This is looking out to finally be a trapper I am willing to run

The extra life is worth way more than rng defense in the current meta.
I can't ever really find a way to justify phase acro on any build.

acro if your a good player, life if your not.

Also depends how much the 25% life actually results in, as long as you don't enter a one shot threshold 30% dodge/spell dodge is going to serve you better than 500 life.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

acro if your a good player, life if your not.

Also depends how much the 25% life actually results in, as long as you don't enter a one shot threshold 30% dodge/spell dodge is going to serve you better than 500 life.

Unless hes a 85 max resist basalt/rumi's/TOH pathfinder, 5.500 life is nowhere near enough to escape the 1 shot threshold. Really not even 7500 life is enough in the worst map scenarios.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

acro if your a good player, life if your not.

I would actually probably flip that around. Like I mentioned in my initial reply, it's all about whether your concerns are one-shots or enemy DPS. Presumably, one "solution" to the enemy DPS problem is good mechanical piloting skill, particularly on a ranged build; if you are out of the range of melee enemies, and successfully manual-dodge all enemy projectiles, then the only thing you have left to worry about is one-shots.

One of the reasons I always take Acro/Phase-Acro when it's available for little-to-no-penalty is because I play melee vast majority of the time, and it's too hard for me to resist the temptation to jump right into a crowd of 24 enemies. When you're about to eat 12+ sword strikes and 12+ arrows within 200 milliseconds, 40%/30% or more Dodge helps immensely. But if you strafe so that you're never threatened by those sword strikes or arrows in the first place, 40%/30% Dodge is pointless.

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Nephalim wrote:

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Draegnarrr wrote:

acro if your a good player, life if your not.

Also depends how much the 25% life actually results in, as long as you don't enter a one shot threshold 30% dodge/spell dodge is going to serve you better than 500 life.

Unless hes a 85 max resist basalt/rumi's/TOH pathfinder, 5.500 life is nowhere near enough to escape the 1 shot threshold. Really not even 7500 life is enough in the worst map scenarios.

lol, maybe not enough to avoid the 'oneshot by things you shouldn't be hit by anyway' threshold, but 5.5k is way beyond enough to avoid oneshots from the kind of inevitable damage you can't help but take every now and then. Hell, my trappers rarely reach 4k and they don't get oneshot without a legit mistake on my part (that mistake usually being taking a big boss hit or surprise mechanic like Bameth showing up, not just letting mobs hit while clearing)

and hence i agree with Draegnarrr's point: acro if you're a good player, life if you're not. A good player doesn't need that much life to stay alive and dodge is way better for average ehp if the hits you take aren't the kind that will kill you, a bad player will take the life so they can get away with screwing up worse when they can't tactic or manual avoid the heavy threats.