Change to Vaal Pact discussion

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xMustard wrote:

this is my point. vaal pact has made everybody lazy and forgetful. we forget that we should actually have to do something because reflect is in the game - tone your damage down[/quote]

That is not what happens, players just resort to brute force methods via chaos conversion or stacking anti reflect.

No matter what mechanic you introduce or remove, players will always find a way to optimize against your design.

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xMustard wrote:

this is my point. vaal pact has made everybody lazy and forgetful. we forget that we should actually have to do something because reflect is in the game - tone your damage down

I'm sorry... shit is boring as fuck.

If I want to play titan quest or grim dawn I play those games. I play POE for the slow start that becomes this crazy clear speed machine. That transition is amazing and POE did it the best.

Changes that stray away from this strays from the game that POE has become... not the fossil it once was...and most of the money showed up 2.4+ POE.

it still has that transition and it will still be that way - but now it won't be as boring.

just look at the state of streams right now. people run around one shotting everything blah blah everybody is just watching netflex as they run autopilot fucking demolishing gods, then one thing happens and POP the guy is dead - everybody says wtf kind of shit game design is this?

now, why did that happen? is it because damage is too high? is it because the game design is flawed? no - its because we trivialized the game design and made the game lazy and boring as fk ourselves. people, including high profile streamers just go pop because people are lazy. we've been trained this way because of vaal pact. nobody has defensive capabilities that are adequate enough beyond instant leech, so when something else is needed but not there they go pop and people don't even realize what happened. that is our own problems, not the games.

the game will only change within one aspect - bosses. we will still have crazy clear speed beyond belief - probably even more so now with the new items/uniques/gems/jewels etc. and definitely because of the new pack sizes we'll be able to obtain.
but when it comes to bosses we may need to tone down our dps from 10m dps to only 5, or maybe even only 3m dps in order to grab up some layers of defense beyond instant leech from our damage.

maps will not slow down unless they change tilesets and density way more than they're suggesting but bossing will slow down unless they nerf the shit out of their hp, like put it to where it was in 2.6. this is a good thing.

i don't think we should be able to kill shaper in less than 10 seconds, personally. he is a mechanics based fight, but we can skill him without needing to properly deal with the mechanics. even on non crit builds its a little ridiculous.

this absolutely does not change the clear speed what-so-ever

I think it's a bad change, for the exact same reason ES got nerfed.

because of top end builds can abuse it to insane proportions (IE facetank shaper etc) it gets nerfed for every single build that uses it. which means the already op builds will stay okay, and the mediocre/okay builds that needed VP will be dead.

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xMustard wrote:

but when it comes to bosses we may need to tone down our dps from 10m dps to only 5, or maybe even only 3m dps in order to grab up some layers of defense beyond instant leech from our damage.

gotta love when people pull numbers out of their asses.

so VP needs to be nerfed cos people in mirror gear do 10 mil dps?

my raider is pretty decked and i think my POB goes up to like what? 700k ST dps if i threw like a 100 exalts on it i could maybe get it close to 800k but doubtful.

is VP op for me? no, it enables me to function

why not nerf the 10 mil dps builds, instead of punishing the 500k builds because some other build abused that keystone?

also, some of the best bosskillers out there (like GC miner or AW totems) dont even run leech let alone VP and yet they decimate shaper without any issue.


all it does is push people away from attack/selfcast builds into mines/totems/pets and the occasional berserker/slayer


and here's the funny part. shaper's exactly the type of boss where you barely need any defenses at all because all his shit is completely avoidable, but it's quite a big dps check, especially his last phase. those "10mil" shaper killer builds you talk of, would probably drop dead in tier 11 maps, because on those you cant avoid shit.

so those 10 million builds will still kill shaper no problem, just as fast. this change doesnt affect them even the slightest.

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xMustard wrote:

but when it comes to bosses we may need to tone down our dps from 10m dps to only 5, or maybe even only 3m dps in order to grab up some layers of defense beyond instant leech from our damage.

You made those numbers up, come on. Do you have a 10m dps build?

And no one is doing any of that, mate. What bosses are we talking about? Regular map bosses? If they're dangerous to you, you dont tone down your build - not your damage, not your HP - to take more of useless armor or useless evasion. You either kill the boss in 0.5 seconds or you skip the boss. Shaper? Uber? You dont take more defense layers to tank them, you take more damage to wreck them before they do anything to you.

uhhhh there are plenty of 10m dps builds.

my build does over 5m shaper dps and im not even crit, lol. but yes i was using extreme examples to get my point across a little more. its the same damn thing regardless of numbers you use.

the way you guys post is hilarious to me - you do realize hardcore is a league. its a thing and theres lots of people that do it and they still down all content including uber atziri and shaper. trust me, they are not all just decking out their damage to do it either.

armor is a thing and its useful. evasion is a thing and its useful. there are also a plethora of other options in the game to mitigate and/or avoid damages in order to survive. you might need to tone down your damage a little bit in order to pick up some of those options so that you survive long enough for your life leech or life gain on hit or regen w/e to catch up and top you off before you take lethal blows.

plenty of builds do this now - it isn't like vaal pact is required or every single character gets one shot any time they're hit by anything - for fuck sakes people. you're the exaggerating ones. not me.

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xMustard wrote:

the way you guys post is hilarious to me - you do realize hardcore is a league. its a thing and theres lots of people that do it and they still down all content including uber atziri and shaper. trust me, they are not all just decking out their damage to do it either.

Yes, hardcore is indeed a league. And the best known bosskiller on hardcore leagues is Dan who stacks damage, damage, then some more damage, and then... wait for it... even more damage. Zero defense, baby.

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armor is a thing and its useful. evasion is a thing and its useful.

Evasion is nice for QotF, cant deny. Armor.. come on. Do you take armor on your builds? Yeah, me neither. No one does.

A good change that is long overdue: the first step in combating the clearspeed meta.

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the first step in combating the clearspeed meta

you are LITERALLY admitting you want to eliminate a huge part of the build of today just because you dont like it, you want to make the the build diversity more narrow than what it is now?, VP did NOT save you from 1 shots not uber lab traps nor dot you guys act like it was a logout macro kinda thing, come on
there are worst build out there (boring) like jugg tank that clears slower than a tortoise and you just literally sit there and take 0 damage too, im gonna be rally glad when GGG nerf regen/any other defense and see you getting angry at then, also for the love of god i wish they would just remove ground effect/ add a particle slider (this is another story lol what has it been? 4 years since ppl have wanted those? yeah GGG is so good at actually delivering stuff)

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xMustard wrote:

armor is a thing and its useful. evasion is a thing and its useful

Yet you don't use it on any of your ranger builds. You go for VP instead.

My CWDT build is dead if acuity get the same nerf...

Was fun while it lasted :(.

I guess I could try to do a pure regen version. Seems hard to do though.

Will see if I don't just go slayer like everybody and just get my fun playing the market game.