For those that enjoy labs.

If you truly enjoy labs, the challenge it brings or it's diversity, or what ever you find satisfying about it than I ask you to help us convince GGG to make it optional. I'm glad you enjoy labs, but many people don't. It would in no way harm your experience of the game if GGG gave us the ability to gain ascendancy in others ways. Maybe by killing special bosses, or mobs, or clearing maps. Something that is consistent with 99 percent of the gameplay. Even if labs make sense to you, by acknowledging that mandatory labs are pushing away players and revenue for GGG, you can support them and thank them for their content by helping us change the minds of the GGG staff and make labs optional. Making the labs optional and not locking important progression behind a loathsome minigame who's gameplay is inconsistent with 99 percent of the game's content would in no way harm anyone that likes it. It's a win win for everyone. So join us. I like this game, I want to play it. But the frustration level of having to go through labs on each of my characters is too much. I play games to have fun. Even if you can't understand that frustration for whatever reason and believe that I should just "suck it up," you would be supporting GGG by siding with me and making this content optional.

Help us help GGG bring in more players and more money.

labs are intended to be hard, cause the reward is immense.
No one force ppl to do the labs (even tho, the first 3 are a joke), so i don't understand the complaint tbh.
If u don't like lab, don't do it (just do the first 3 labs and avoid doing the uberlab).

"

Enhok wrote:

labs are intended to be hard, cause the reward is immense.
No one force ppl to do the labs (even tho, the first 3 are a joke), so i don't understand the complaint tbh.
If u don't like lab, don't do it (just do the first 3 labs and avoid doing the uberlab).

The exact same argument could be made about Kitava. Imagine if they rebuffed Kitava to what he originally was and took away the ability to buy a Kitava kill. Would you feel the same way because "Kitava is intended be hard because the reward is immense." If you feel differently about Kitava then you should start seeing where I am coming from with labs.

"No one force ppl to do the labs (even tho, the first 3 are a joke), so i don't understand the complaint tbh."

No one forces you to do maps either. If Kitava is too hard without help then just grind act 9 and 10 until 100. Maps are optional. No one is forcing you to do it. So I don't understand the complaint for why people wanted to Nerf Kitava.

If you don't like Kitava don't do it, you don't need to unlock maps.

They nerfed katava?

You're comparing apples to oranges. Katava prevents you from getting to content. The labs do not. You can still get to every single area in the game without doing the lab.

"

mark1030 wrote:

They nerfed katava?

You're comparing apples to oranges. Katava prevents you from getting to content. The labs do not. You can still get to every single area in the game without doing the lab.

Ascendancy is a huge part of content. It completely makes or breaks a build. Build creating is as much part of content as killing mobs and bosses. A lot of build outright require ascendancy to even function. Summoner builds without ascendancy are not viable. Totem builds without ascendancy?

This entire line of reasoning is mind boggling. Why are you advocating against a change that wouldn't effect you? It's like advocating against giving people the ability to buy a kitava kill.

How would being allowed to buy a "full" lab carry hurt you in any way? Or if you could get ascendency by killing a boss AND buy doing lab, giving you the option to do either. How would that hurt you in any way.

If you can't think of a reason how that would personally harm your experience of the game, something that can't also be said about giving people the ability to buy a kitava kill, then your protests make no sense and you should be on my side to help GGG gain higher player loyalty and business.

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

"

mark1030 wrote:

They nerfed katava?

You're comparing apples to oranges. Katava prevents you from getting to content. The labs do not. You can still get to every single area in the game without doing the lab.

Ascendancy is a huge part of content. It completely makes or breaks a build. Build creating is as much part of content as killing mobs and bosses. A lot of build outright require ascendancy to even function. Summoner builds without ascendancy are not viable. Totem builds without ascendancy?

This entire line of reasoning is mind boggling. Why are you advocating against a change that wouldn't effect you? It's like advocating against giving people the ability to buy a kitava kill.

How would being allowed to buy a "full" lab carry hurt you in any way? Or if you could get ascendency by killing a boss AND buy doing lab, giving you the option to do either. How would that hurt you in any way.

If you can't think of a reason how that would personally harm your experience of the game, something that can't also be said about giving people the ability to buy a kitava kill, then your protests make no sense and you should be on my side to help GGG gain higher player loyalty and business.

You could also, for example, figure out a build that uses only 6 points, or none at all.

You keep making the same points all over the place, but you haven't actually given us any points that wouild personally harm your experience of the game apart from "I don't like it, pls remove"

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

"

mark1030 wrote:

They nerfed katava?

You're comparing apples to oranges. Katava prevents you from getting to content. The labs do not. You can still get to every single area in the game without doing the lab.

Ascendancy is a huge part of content. It completely makes or breaks a build. Build creating is as much part of content as killing mobs and bosses. A lot of build outright require ascendancy to even function. Summoner builds without ascendancy are not viable. Totem builds without ascendancy?

This entire line of reasoning is mind boggling. Why are you advocating against a change that wouldn't effect you? It's like advocating against giving people the ability to buy a kitava kill.

How would being allowed to buy a "full" lab carry hurt you in any way? Or if you could get ascendency by killing a boss AND buy doing lab, giving you the option to do either. How would that hurt you in any way.

If you can't think of a reason how that would personally harm your experience of the game, something that can't also be said about giving people the ability to buy a kitava kill, then your protests make no sense and you should be on my side to help GGG gain higher player loyalty and business.

I wasn't protesting anything. I was just saying your argument is BS. Name one area in the game you can't get to without doing the lab. Not counting areas in the lab that is. Now name one area you can't access without killing Katava. I can name 126 of them. See the difference? Are there some builds that require ascendency points? Sure. But there are many builds that don't. Ascendency just makes them stronger. And out of the ones that require ascendencies, there are very few that require all 8 ascendency points. The first two labs are so easy it's hard to feel sorry for somebody complaining about them. It's harder to get through the end of act 4 than it is to get through normal lab. And you can't get to act 5 without finishing act 4.

"

ProfessorGanymede wrote:

"

Enhok wrote:

No one force ppl to do the labs (even tho, the first 3 are a joke), so i don't understand the complaint tbh.

No one forces you to do maps either. If Kitava is too hard without help then just grind act 9 and 10 until 100. Maps are optional. No one is forcing you to do it. So I don't understand the complaint for why people wanted to Nerf Kitava.

If you don't like Kitava don't do it, you don't need to unlock maps.

It's like you're using a "12 rules to make logical fallacies in argument" book.
Or "10 rules of arguing" one.
Almost perfect straw-man. Almost.

"

I was just saying your argument is BS. Name one area in the game you can't get to without doing the lab. Not counting areas in the lab that is. Now name one area you can't access without killing Katava.

So your argument is that build optimization doesn't count as content? You are saying it's ok to be able to buy a kill for Kitava because the reward is so high, but you shouldn't be able to buy a "full" run of lab because...the reward isn't so high?

I've told you that I and many other players don't enjoy labs and it is ruining our experience of the game. Proposing an option to allow us to bypass labs if we want, like allowing "full" lab runs where someone can drop a tp at the end of the lab, or we gain ascendancy points by completing certain maps, would in no way harm your personal enjoyment of the game.

Since my argument is that for me, labs are loathsome, and I'm proposing solutions that don't effect your personal experience of the game, why aren't you on my side? Why are we arguing? Or are you just arguing just for the sake of argument and not actually trying to help GGG's business?

For the love of god...

Drop the lousy kitava argument, it doesn't make any sense, it isn't comparable.

Your only suggestion (the same ones every time), modify the entire game just because you can't be bothered.

Grow up.

You want to compare it? Compare it to real life. "I want ice cream, but I don't have money and for me working is loathsome, pls gib other way to get money fast without effort so I can buy my ice cream"

That comparison works.
Unlike your kitava kill.