Trade Manifesto

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Completed 6 ChallengesNemoJr wrote:


Because people couldn't find decent items by simply playing the game, they flocked to the AH, and because everyone and their mother geared their character from the AH, the devs became obsessed with the idea of "preserving the health of the economy" which prevented them from improving drop rates of desirable items. I'm sure you can see the problem here.

I wish, just for once, a developer would simply buck this philosophy, stop obsessively worrying about items being too easy to acquire, and let the players have fun in their own way, with no strings attached, instead of feeling like they have to stay on top of emerging trends and currency exchange rates and all that BS. There's a website dedicated to PoE currency exchange rates FFS. I thought this was an ARPG where we kill monsters and get loot. This is madness. I just want to play this game you made. LET ME PLAY YOUR GAME.



Items that are easy to acquire, are worthless. I have the feeling a lot of players want an environment similar as to what happened to diablo 2. Massive cheating and duping caused items there to be worthless and everyone and their grandma was having their "little fun" playing all the best builds straight away. GGG doesn't want that to happen. They care about items.
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Completed 1 ChallengeReinhart wrote:
Spoiler
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Completed 6 ChallengesNemoJr wrote:


Because people couldn't find decent items by simply playing the game, they flocked to the AH, and because everyone and their mother geared their character from the AH, the devs became obsessed with the idea of "preserving the health of the economy" which prevented them from improving drop rates of desirable items. I'm sure you can see the problem here.

I wish, just for once, a developer would simply buck this philosophy, stop obsessively worrying about items being too easy to acquire, and let the players have fun in their own way, with no strings attached, instead of feeling like they have to stay on top of emerging trends and currency exchange rates and all that BS. There's a website dedicated to PoE currency exchange rates FFS. I thought this was an ARPG where we kill monsters and get loot. This is madness. I just want to play this game you made. LET ME PLAY YOUR GAME.



Items that are easy to acquire, are worthless. I have the feeling a lot of players want an environment similar as to what happened to diablo 2. Massive cheating and duping caused items there to be worthless and everyone and their grandma was having their "little fun" playing all the best builds straight away. GGG doesn't want that to happen. They care about items.


My hat is off to you for fishing that out of the depths of the thread, from ~13 pages and ~8 months ago; I can respect that.

That said, I would like to remind everyone it's a short part of a long critique, which includes the response to your comment about how "they care about items".

To rephrase: Trading already invalidates the idea that items are 'special'; if it can be acquired in 5 minutes, with currency that can be farmed in 15 minutes, then it's just an item worth 20 minutes with a very unintuitive and 'unfun' method of acquisition (i.e. the current trade system).

And to add: Constantly introducing new "unique" items --half of which are worthless, and the other half will be worthless by the time of the next league-- isn't my idea of "caring about items"; YMMV.

(Do mind that I didn't say "useless", but rather "worthless"; as in monetary and sentimental value.)

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In my experience, games that allow players to tweak the difficulty to their taste (whether by cheats, mods, in-game decisions, or a good old fashioned difficulty slider) tend to be remembered more fondly by a greater number of players, for obvious reasons: The more people playing at their 'ideal' difficulty, the more people having fun.

You're saying "everyone and their grandma having fun" as if it's a bad thing.

The recent addition of "Private Leagues" to PoE, with their own set of extra challenges, is a good example of 'custom difficulty' (despite being a paid option).


Also in my experience, most contemporary ARPG developers err on the side of 'giving too little' rather than 'giving too much', as if that's the 'safer bet'. They're doing both their game and its players a great disservice, in my opinion.

Give the players too much, and some will find ways to "gimp" themselves and then brag about it. Give them too little, and some will start cheating. Or leaving.
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Last edited by NemoJr on Feb 12, 2019, 4:51:25 AM
I am pretty new to the game, it is my first league, but I have pretty extensive gaming experience, and in most games trade is a big though not biggest part for me.

My feeling as a new player is that current trade system benefits only top players and is too harsh for newbies like me. Seller has to return to hideout - meaning noone want to sell cheap stuff needed for casual/new players. Trying to buy something which costs 1 alc takes 10 times more time than buying something for 10 chaos, not to mention a few exalts. As result, I leveled all toons mostly in self find mode, but bought all gear for mapping.

I read developers manifest carefully, and I think my experience is exactly opposite to what was intended. Keeping current system for top items but having easier trade for cheap items would involve in trade more people, benefit mostly casual players and decrease gap between top 10% and all others.
Like they say in the manifesto, on xbox there is a tradeboard, it's completely useless but the potential could be there if GGG actualy wants it.

The board at least gives a way to trade without going to the hide-out. To bad it's way to time consuming to find the item you want/need in a decent way (and that's a bad GGG choice, while it could be so easy to implement a decent search system)



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Completed 19 ChallengesSoellita wrote:


I read developers manifest carefully, and I think my experience is exactly opposite to what was intended. Keeping current system for top items but having easier trade for cheap items would involve in trade more people, benefit mostly casual players and decrease gap between top 10% and all others.


Best response in 50 pages.

The idea that easy trades would result in fewer upgrades (and less fun) is insane. The current horrible trade means you almost never bother upgrading because buying anything but your map tier / endgame items is so awful.

I stopped playing over a month ago or so. It always get excited when you finally completed all the Acts but it got really frustrated to do maps since most of the times u have to depends on trade (i'm a casual player) and you know how horrible it is to keep whispering to afk sellers.

So here is my propose.

Create a central Town or hideout where everyone can jump in and trade. There will be a new menu say 'Trade' when u click it will open a trade windows for all the items the players have put in the trade tab. You can buy directly the item from here.


hmm. at first i thought its a good idea but then it kinda doesnt make any sense.

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Completed 19 ChallengesSoellita wrote:
Keeping current system for top items but having easier trade for cheap items would involve in trade more people, benefit mostly casual players and decrease gap between top 10% and all others.


Exactly this. Converting currency and selling and buying low tier maps are very taxing tasks. It would probably greatly help new players with their Atlas completion if they could buy a missing map without requiring 10 whispers until someone responds to sell an item for 1 alchemy orb.

I completely agree with the trade manifesto about endgame gear, but the issue isn't that it takes one minute to buy an item which costs hours of farming, rather than trading commodity items (fossils, maps, fragments) is incredibly annoying.
One thing that could be great is an information of the last time a player from wich we want to buy an item was connected to the game because in standard, i often want to buy item and have no answers during sometime 2 or 3 weeks or more and i dont find other players with similar stuff so its a waste of time.
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but it will kill the fun of finding items


I've played a few characters through to level 90 and have never yet found one of the build-enabling uniques I've used for those builds. Not even the ones that sell for 1c. There are just too many uniques and they're too rarely found at levels that can be reached without them. Now can we talk about lab enchants?

If you want something like Voidforge or Starforge, it'll need to be 6L and you're going to really struggle to complete the atlas and defeat the elders just to have a chance of it dropping. And if you can it's hardly a build-enabling unique, plus then what are you going to do once you have it... progress to the post-elder maps? And I'd say it's 50/50 whether you get the 6L drop or accumulate enough fusing drops to be able to 6S+6L a random one.

Or you can play to level 80 or so, accumulating enough currency to buy one, and be on your way.

The "fun of finding items" is about getting drops with your first few characters and going "hey, now I have X,Y and Z I can make a ...". I think Mathil seems to do that occasionally.

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