Since crying changed GGG fix on Desecrate. Can we do a massive crying on Domblow to revert it to 2.0

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raics wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

What is disturbing is that unless the reddit masses support your vision of balance, you are really shit out of luck. GGG instantly relented when there was outrage for the spectre nerf and also when they were about to specialize/nerf power/frenzy charges but where were these voices of outrage when 2.6 nerfed iaoe to oblivion? Is game balance solely in the hands of the vocal reddit masses now?

Well, there's a fair amount of difference between these cases.

The charge situation gave off a solid vibe of GGG not being quite sure what are they trying to do with that change and making a poor case of why was it needed. That trap chest further emphasized the impression that the whole thing was made on the spur of a moment, something they haven't been working on long enough, thought it through or tested it properly.

AoE change was different because a significant portion of playerbase saw it as an issue (in various degrees of severity), the backlash was mostly related to the incomplete way that rework was done. This was actually kinda similar to the CoC situation, players understood the reasons behind it but didn't support the change itself.

What I'm thinking about this desecrate change is there's probably a reason they released it right now instead of alongside 3.1. When you want to push through a minor change you're absolutely sure about but expect the community won't like it, that would be the way to do it because it would be drowned in other feedback. If they did it like this that probably means they were unsure of what to do and wanted feedback, the spectre hunt is one of their pet features from way back but they probably expected it wouldn't fit in current PoE and that community wouldn't accept it.

There is literally zero difference. Reddit scrubs balance this game because Chris Wilson frequents the site. Now posts are showing up as they praise Chris and GGG for "listening to them" jacking their micro penises over controlling the game.

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raics wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

What is disturbing is that unless the reddit masses support your vision of balance, you are really shit out of luck. GGG instantly relented when there was outrage for the spectre nerf and also when they were about to specialize/nerf power/frenzy charges but where were these voices of outrage when 2.6 nerfed iaoe to oblivion? Is game balance solely in the hands of the vocal reddit masses now?

Well, there's a fair amount of difference between these cases.

The charge situation gave off a solid vibe of GGG not being quite sure what are they trying to do with that change and making a poor case of why was it needed. That trap chest further emphasized the impression that the whole thing was made on the spur of a moment, something they haven't been working on long enough, thought it through or tested it properly.

AoE change was different because a significant portion of playerbase saw it as an issue (in various degrees of severity), the backlash was mostly related to the incomplete way that rework was done. This was actually kinda similar to the CoC situation, players understood the reasons behind it but didn't support the change itself.

What I'm thinking about this desecrate change is there's probably a reason they released it right now instead of alongside 3.1. When you want to push through a minor change you're absolutely sure about but expect the community won't like it, that would be the way to do it because it would be drowned in other feedback. If they did it like this that probably means they were unsure of what to do and wanted feedback, the spectre hunt is one of their pet features from way back but they probably expected it wouldn't fit in current PoE and that community wouldn't accept it.

While those are good points I would like to point out GGG flat out lied about how crippling the iAoE nerfs were or at the very least did not provide enough data for players to extrapolate the before and after. It was meant to turn exponential growth into something more reasonable but what was actually happening was that there was no worthwhile benefit going past a very low value of iaoe and builds who used iaoe to scale clear speed were obsolete over night.

In a sense, they gave a much less bleak picture of what actually was going to happen so the community had no chance to react or protest. By the time the patch took effect, enough time had passed for the community to have moved on to whine about something else.

It would be like if they said they were going to "rework charges to be more synergistic with specialized builds" but did not actually explicit say frenzy charges will no longer with spells and that power charges will only work with spells.

Had GGG provided true numbers and the community protested it as loudly as charge rework or spectre nerfs I had little doubt they would have had to at least tweak the scaling curve and this is the part that gets me. Letting the game be balanced by how loudly people with wallets will whine.

CoC had to be nerfed, but GGG made it useless. Iaoe had to be nerfed but aoe made it worthless past a very low threshold. Iaoe affects half the skills the game, Coc was a one trick pony build abused for a few leagues. Coc, charge rework, spectres are magnitudes apart in terms of importance compared to global iAOE scaling for long term game balance in my opinion.

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Nephalim wrote:

In a sense, they gave a much less bleak picture of what actually was going to happen so the community had no chance to react or protest. By the time the patch took effect, enough time had passed for the community to have moved on to whine about something else.

Also, enough skills work good enough now without the need for high IAoE scaling, I think that's what robbed the mob of its momentum the most, everyone found a skill that works good and went yay - I can skip Carcass Jack. I don't really think people are that crazy about hunting for every scrap of some stat in general, most just want their favorite skill to work good and if it happens without the need to invest in something it's like christmas came early.

People are still complaining they didn't follow through with the change properly, though, and I can easily agree with that even if I do like the overall change.

I honestly dont get all the fuss about the aoe nerf. being able to hit the full screen or multiple screens is kind of an issue since not every skill can do it.

lets be honest the only reason keep keep whining about the aoe nerf is because ggg did not also nerf projectile skills.


if anything id put projectile skills on the chopping block since they are one of the few grossly over performing clear methods left.. having everything else nerfed while leaving that at is ... just feels wierd.


where as the specter change flat out broke the game for many people. as in they went from having level 80 specters .. to at best having level 53 specters or they went from having a reasonable chance of finding specters to spending 100 chaos a day and 4 hours finding their specters..


the changes to charges were in a similar vein.. they flat at broke the purpose of several unique items. as in the unique items had to reason to exist because of those tentative changes.

in both cases the popular term "literally unplayable" can be applied. even with aoe nerfs .. all the skills in question are playable at the very least.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

if anything id put projectile skills on the chopping block since they are one of the few grossly over performing clear methods left.. having everything else nerfed while leaving that at is ... just feels wierd.

Can't say I was expecting them to at least revert the change to max travel distance from a few months back.

Passably playable but not even semi competitive for the purposes of what truly matters in this game: clear speed, is not what I would want to relegate half the skills in the game to.

How much more dull or homogenized can the game even get at this point where the only meaningful defensive mechanic is life node stacking and build diversity has been reduced to belly with a shield/DW or koams with a 2 hander.

Quick somebody cry for AOE nerfs and Cast on Critical strike cooldown and discharge triggered penalty and...

nevermind not enough tears on the planet.

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Quick somebody cry for AOE nerfs and Cast on Critical strike cooldown and discharge triggered penalty and...

nevermind not enough tears on the planet.

Aoe has been tackled the wrong way

They shouldn't have nerf the aoe

Instead they should have made it so that each unit distance apply a 1%less damage

And there they Go

Moderation sees a Thread that doesnt brownNose GGG

They delete it to a subforum to make sure nobody sees it

Love the concept, but too many problems, let's do this!