Do I need to have a naked slave woman shackled to my mana pool?

"
Zifna wrote:
A lot of you are taking my tastes very personally, don't you think? Especially

So, she wasn't offended by them, but she clearly saw the inclusion as a "Boys will be boys" thing.

If that's the tone Grinding Gear wants to take, that's their choice, and I'll suck it up and either play or not play. But I didn't want them to make a "Game For Boys" by accident.


Well ever since the whole kickstarter fiasco (feminist frequency girl I forget her name), people are afraid that games they like will start to be changed for reasons they don't agree with. The same stuff has been happening in other mediums, for example the whole atheism+/radical feminism crowd in the atheist community (this is a tangent so I wont go into detail but if you are familiar with those groups they are trying to change certain things in the atheism convention community). A lot of people also don't really agree with radical feminism. Granted all of this doesn't excuse being an asshole to people, but this is after all the internet and these forums are filled with hate like many others accross the internet (for example the kripparien hate on these forums). Really when it comes to internet hate you have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

As for "game For Boys" Im sure many of my lady friends or my sister would be absolutely fine with the level of nudity in this game. Heck some of them might even enjoy it as much as straight guys (hint non straight girls). As I said I'm all for adding options, and in a perfect world I'm sure GGG would be to, but in the real world there is finite resources and they must be allocated in the right place at the right time. The current UI art does suit the theme of the game, and the only reason to add in other options would be to please a very small minority who are bothered by it. This would be a bad allocation of resources especially when there are more things to change or add in to the game.

The artist also might not be to happy to change his work of art to please the masses and he/she might be happy with it being unpleasant for some people and unwilling to change it. I think that must be respected, as it is in other more traditional mediums of art (paintings etc).
Last edited by kwahip on Feb 27, 2013, 2:50:15 PM
Thanks for the levelheaded response Kwawhip. Even if you disagree it is nice that you can do it without making it personal. :)

I agree with you that there will definitely be women who don't have a problem with it, just like there are guys who will like things that are designed for girls. :) I HAVE seen guys wear pink glittery t-shirts for example, and love them and there's nothing wrong with them liking them - but I think most people would agree that a pink glittery t-shirt is designed to appeal to women primarily, and if you make something pink and glittery you should expect that a significant percentage of guys will be uncomfortable using it.

Everything else you said about resources, it not being worth it to appeal to a minority etc. - well, it'd make me sad to hear the developers say that, but I can understand that viewpoint if that is what they say. They are a small-ish team after all.
Last edited by Zifna on Feb 27, 2013, 3:00:09 PM
NOTE

I heard people complain about certain points of the art in many different forms.
Some people complain it doesn't look like Diablo3 or Torchlight or any other cartoony game.
Some people complain about nudity either male or female.
Some people complain about the gore.

And I'm sick of it. Sick of people telling artists how to do their art.
If there are flaws of things that could be made better, tell them, but don't tell them what the game should look like. You're just someone playing the game (for free) and they are the ones making the game.


"
Zifna wrote:
A lot of you are taking my tastes very personally, don't you think? Especially since I basically asked for the OPTION not to look at it.



But an Option costs time and energy, time and energy that is wasted on something as small as this. Unless there is a huge crowd that wants to buy alternate UI for their Life and Managlobes.



"
It's a noticeable element that clearly arouses a certain percentage of the male playerbase.


So what? People are not allowed to be aroused by something now or what? Does it offend you that people have sexual interest in the opposing sex?
I don't see why you bring this up, other than stating a hidden message that says "I don't want males to have sexual fantasies"



"
So, she wasn't offended by them, but she clearly saw the inclusion as a "Boys will be boys" thing.


Yeah, duh! Human beings have sex and reproduce, most males are interested in females and vise versa.
So of course boys will be boys. Even if they are hot for other boys.
It's called sexuality. I guess women have that too, last time I spoke to them they do indeed have that as well.

"
If that's the tone Grinding Gear wants to take, that's their choice, and I'll suck it up and either play or not play. But I didn't want them to make a "Game For Boys" by accident. If that's what they WANT to do, as many of you have pointed out, that is definitely their choice and I wouldn't say they shouldn't have the freedom to make that choice.


Okay to be all clear here.
GGG contains mostly of males.
D2 players contain mostly of males.
And still a large % of people playing videogames are male.

There are girl gamers like you for example. And I really am happy that more girls find an interest in this genre of entertainment.
But things are not particular marketed at boys, especially not this game.
Also what is marketed at boys is what you think of it. If you think his game is marketed as boys you undermine the capacity of girls to be able to play this game, either from a sentimental standpoint or from a point of view of skill.

If in your opinion girls are too weak-hearted to "bare a girls in shackles" you push them in the light of "girls are weak and need protection" which is, as far as I know something feminist don't like.
Sure you can be offended by it but that's as you said, only you. To say that other females will be just lumps them together with so whiny (and here I actually say it) pussies.


Look at a game like Tera, everything is 100% sexualized. Not only the females but also the males.
Unlike in PoE, where it has a more realistic approach and no need to sell skimpy elf girls to teenagers.
To say that a naked girl in shackles is offensive undermines much greater things that are offensive. And really. It's not a real person and it doesn't teach bad values to people either.

Also, what kwahip said.


People are sick and tired of Political Correctness, being told that they hurt someones feelings by some minor little thing. People don't like the special treatment feminist ask for. If you want gender equality, then it should be that, equality, no special treatment for one gender over the other.
That's why I asked if you would have been offended if it was a man in shackles on the globe.


Of course I don't know if you are a feminist but you sure sound like one.


Evasion Lolipower
Essence Drain Trickster Build Guide - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1635168
It's sad to see someone get crapped on when they bring up a serious issue such as sexual discrimination.
"
And I'm sick of it. Sick of people telling artists how to do their art.


Maybe you should stop browsing the "Beta Art Feedback" forum then, because it sounds like it is not good for your blood pressure. Also, there's a difference between "telling" and "asking."



"
If in your opinion girls are too weak-hearted to "bare a girls in shackles" you push them in the light of "girls are weak and need protection" which is, as far as I know something feminist don't like.
Sure you can be offended by it but that's as you said, only you. To say that other females will be just lumps them together with so whiny (and here I actually say it) pussies.


I didn't say all other women would be, I said many would be. And I didn't suggest it would make them cry or ruin their lives, I suggested that it might cause people not to play the game. Usually people making things to make money prefer to appeal to more people rather than to less people, so I felt that this was relevant information.

The game developer who posted here has said that I'm not the only one who's made posts like this, so I'm not some lone crazy hermit or something.

Now, do I represent 1% of potential players? 10%? 0.1%? I don't know and neither do you.

"
That's why I asked if you would have been offended if it was a man in shackles on the globe.
I personally would have been uncomfortable with this as well, especially if he was shackled in a sexual position, because I really don't like anyone being in the position of unwilling sex object. However, I suspect my husband would have been even more uncomfortable though, as would other male players.

That would be an interesting experiment, if the developers threw a lithe naked man over the top of the health orb with a very conspicuous bulging junk sticking off the top. I mean, I'm not saying I'd like to see that personally but I am curious if the people telling me the mana woman shouldn't bother me would be as blase about that or not. Maybe they would be.
Zifna, while you are better at making a reasonable point than the person who started the naked statues thread, I'm still going to agree with a good number of people here and say that this isn't a major issue.
The artist (or possibly the UI designer if GGG has one of those specifically) did a good job of keeping the game from going "Hey look, theres partially naked people here on your orbs! Look! Hey!", and as a mature game, on an island that is much closer to grimdark than it is to nice, they fit in pretty well. This is probably the first time since CB that I've actually looked that closely at the corner of the screen.

And to be honest, there are far worse things on the internet than 'ARPG with naked slave woman attached to health/mana orbs'. Some of it isn't even hard to find, considering the infamy 4chan can have depending on the board.
Pants? Bah. Who needs pants when you're exiled. Theres magic and other more important things to pay attention to.
Last edited by Aklyon on Feb 27, 2013, 3:48:35 PM
"
Truemas wrote:
"Do i need to have a naked slave woman shackled to my mana pool?"

Yes!


This.

Seriously get these wack people who get uncomfortable when they look at art out of here. Bunch a trolls and nonsense, right up there with people that don't understand loot competition and call everyone ninjas. This isn't a company with a massive PR campaign ready to homogenize the entire game to maximize the target market.

This is Path Of Exile, it's not one of those dumbed down games where everyone is a winner or the content is created to cash in on a pg-13 market. It's a real game made by a company that isn't owned by big corporate concerns of what is politically correct or what's going to be the most economically viable.

"
Completed 13 Challengesparaspam wrote:
It's sad to see someone get crapped on when they bring up a serious issue such as sexual discrimination.


It's only sexual discrimination if it is agains women, is something I learned from modern gender equality proponents.
That's why I cannot take it serious anymore.

"
Maybe you should stop browsing the "Beta Art Feedback" forum then, because it sounds like it is not good for your blood pressure. Also, there's a difference between "telling" and "asking."


True, I read way too much BS on the forums about people complaining about a lot of retarded things.
But you know, I'm here a long time and it's something I could call passion fatigue.

"
Usually people making things to make money prefer to appeal to more people rather than to less people, so I felt that this was relevant information.


Fair enough.
Though it didn't come across this way, especially in light with all the underaged or religious people who were offended by the naked male statues and their penises.

"
I personally would have been uncomfortable with this as well, especially if he was shackled in a sexual position, because I really don't like anyone being in the position of unwilling sex object. However, I suspect my husband would have been even more uncomfortable though, as would other male players.


I do give you the benefit of the the doubt.

But to be fair, I feel not offended by this in the slightes.
There are also people who are into bondage and stuff like that ( I am not, I am very neutral about it)

So yeah I'm not offended by things like that. There are very little sexual things that offend me.
There are other things that do offend me but I don't wanna bring up because they are irelephant (everything that is not an elephant is irelephant ;D).

"
if the developers threw a lithe naked man over the top of the health orb with a very conspicuous bulging junk sticking off the top.

I'd have no problems with that.
I've seen gay porn and didn't care
I've seen boku no pico 2 times and thought it was hilarious.

Though it would be unfair to have his junk sticking out, since the girl is covered as well, you don't even see her nipples.


Also haven't you been to act3 yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAwGx_5f-Xc
Some guy even made a video bout the penis.

Spoiler
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/74072/page/1 this is the one thread btw about the guy complaining about naked statues
Evasion Lolipower
Essence Drain Trickster Build Guide - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1635168
PoE is one of the least sexualized games I know. It's one of the reasons I love it. And yeah, I was one of those persons who would have liked it if WoW's chainmail bikini textures for females had not been made extra-skimpy, because I can see a case for oversexualization there. It was clearly implemented to cater to male audiences who love women in bikinis, even if they're supposed to be made of solid metal.
Still, I didn't open a can of worms over it.

Those orb babes are an artistic choice. They fit the tone of the game to a tee: A grim, dark place for mature audiences. Your very player character is an exiled prisoner. Why aren't those orb babes male? Because, you know... male slaves were not treated as 'decorative appliances' but as 'disposable tools'. Did you know that in ancient Rome they used to pit male slaves and male soldiers against elephants in the coliseum? And that the audience objected to it because they were against cruelty to the animals?
As a male, I would have taken being a decorative orb babe over being gutted, trampled and left to rot any day.


But back to artistic choice. Like, you know, Michelangelo made the artistic choice to display David's penis.
Let me be frank here, this is how you come across to me: Imagine a man who wants that penis covered up because it upsets his delicate sensibilities, and suggests to Michelangelo he break it off altogether or at least do a second, dong-less version since he's sure more men will look at David with much more enthusiasm and much less unease.
You are that man. Only with genders reversed.

And sure, you might not be alone. Does that mean your idea is any better? (It really does not)


If you're really, really that desperate to not see those girls: Cut out some paper crescents the size of those girls and stick them to your display to cover up those girls who make you uncomfortable.



And in closing I have to add: Do you know why so many comments on such issues are so hostile? It's not because "gamers don't like women" or are "afraid of women". No. It's because people like you - men and women alike - come into one of the last safe spaces they have, where they can simply enjoy things they aren't allowed to enjoy anywhere else, and all you seem to be doing is criticizing and waving your sex about you like you owned the place.
Yes, I realize you "asked", and that certainly is better than demanding. But this is such a minor issue, I couldn't even call it a boo-boo if it tripled in size.

Let me say again that this is a game for mature audiences. Mature meaning "mature in spirit", not only "being of age".
If you're really so sensitive (or your friends are) that those two chained slave girls as UI element make them so uncomfortable to the point of not playing, yet slaughtering tens of thousands of creatures and humans (mostly male) do NOT, I would really suggest you think your priorities over.
And maybe, considering the 'mature' theme of PoE, it really is not meant to be played by your friends. Though you can always make cutouts for them, too.
12/12/12 - the day Germany decided boys are not quite human.
Last edited by Avireyn on Feb 27, 2013, 4:35:04 PM
"
Completed 13 Challengesparaspam wrote:
It's sad to see someone get crapped on when they bring up a serious issue such as sexual discrimination.


Sexual discrimination is a serious issue if the UN wants to circumcise 30 million boys in Africa.
Sexual discrimination is a serious issue if a state legalizes Genital Mutilation of one sex while at the same time demonizing Genital Mutilation of the opposite one.
Sexual Discrimination is a serious issue if people get stoned to death because of their sexual orientation.
Sexual discrimination is a serious issue if humans are treated as second-class because of their sex.
Sexual discrimination is a serious issue if a whole sex is singled out to die for their country.


Calling a single artistic choice in a freaking game "sexual discrimination" makes light of the term "sexual discrimination".
Well done.
12/12/12 - the day Germany decided boys are not quite human.
Last edited by Avireyn on Feb 27, 2013, 4:26:54 PM

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info