[3.0] Demon's Souls [Hiltless] Cyclone build | League starter | Shaper Down!

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pbpb147z2000 wrote:

Thanks, I post this build in another forum.
Someone tell me pick up Ruthless Support to put Hypothermia Support,
and pick up Glacial Cascade or Ethereal Knives to put Vortex.
How do you think about this?

Sorry,I am taiwanese , english is poor.

This is an alright idea, and I have considered it, however the issue is that there are bosses (mostly just guardians and shaper boss) that have "immune to chill/freeze", and so hypothermia just doesn't work on them.

I don't want to be in the position where I have to switch gems just for those bosses as it would be a pain to do it.

Vortex is great for helping with your defense since it chills enemy monsters, but it won't benefit from hatred or herald of ash auras.

How is this build in HoGM?

Some build guide updates:

- Added 2nd shaper cleaner kill video
- Added beachhead T15 full clear video

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H3avyM3tal wrote:

How is this build in HoGM?

You need builds specifically designed for HoGM, this build is not one of them :-)
You can try it but you'd probably be wasting your time.

Hi, the build looks very interesting but the sword proccing the CWDT setup sounds kinda misleading, doesn't it? At Lvl 20, the CWDT Gem takes about 3200 dmg to trigger one spell.

Did you calculate if it was more beneficial to keep the CWDT gem and the linked spells at a lower level?

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Meatcleaver wrote:

Hi, the build looks very interesting but the sword proccing the CWDT setup sounds kinda misleading, doesn't it? At Lvl 20, the CWDT Gem takes about 3200 dmg to trigger one spell.

Did you calculate if it was more beneficial to keep the CWDT gem and the linked spells at a lower level?

I don't think it's misleading at all, the sword is directly responsible for contributing to trigger a large amount of CWDT procs - as for *how much* it's helping, well it's very situational and dependent on the number of enemies you're hitting/armour.

I will attempt to do some quick maths as follows:

Based off my current character

7.5 attacks per second (with ancestral protector)

Reflect damage is calculation (formula from: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Armour):
1800 / (1800 + 10*100) = 64% mitigation =>
36 damage reflected per hit

Number of enemies hit:
1 enemy hit: 7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 1 enemy = 270 damage reflected per second => 3200/270 => ~12 seconds per trigger

2 enemies hit:
7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 2 enemy = 540 damage reflected per second => 3200/540 => ~6 seconds per trigger

4 enemies hit:
7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 4 enemy = 1080 damage reflected per second => 3200/1080 => ~3 seconds per trigger

8 enemies hit:
7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 8 enemy = 2160 damage reflected per second => 3200/2160 => ~1.5 seconds per trigger

16 enemies hit:
7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 16 enemy = 4320 damage reflected per second => 3200/4320 => 0.75 seconds per trigger

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Note that the above calculations are based on having 1800 armour. It should give you a decent idea of how much the sword is contributing, the more monsters you're hitting the more it's helping - against bosses it's not so useful.

This ignores damage taken from monsters which also helps trigger your CWDT, against the harder bosses like shaper/guardians it's proccing almost constantly and adds a nice amount of damage, anything easier dies so fast it doesn't really matter.

TLDR: The amount that hiltless contributes towards triggering CWDT is situational, scaling off: A) how much armour you have (i.e. how much phys damage is being mitigated) and B) how many enemies you're hitting.
Against bosses it's less good. Packs of monsters get melted.

Thank you for the above answer.

Excuse me, will the Tempest's Binding and the Enlightenment(level 4) on this building have any help?

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pbpb147z2000 wrote:

Thank you for the above answer.

Excuse me, will the Tempest's Binding and the Enlightenment(level 4) on this building have any help?

I'm not exactly sure how you'd work tempests binding to fit the build, you'd need to shuffle and change a lot of gems probably, though the best way to do it I am not certain. If you can suggest a way to use it I'd certainly be open to it.

I am not too familiar with tempests binding, can the harbinger shock bosses? If so it could be very good damage boost!


Stats wise, with tempests binding my life went from 7286 to 7316, so little difference there. Also lost 140 strength without it, and you would require level 4 enlighten (expensive) to maintain the same auras since it doesn't have +1 gems on it.

I'm actually in love with this build, but i wanted to ask, what skill gems should i get to 20%? I mean what 20% gems give more profit then others?

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Vishnyak wrote:

I'm actually in love with this build, but i wanted to ask, what skill gems should i get to 20%? I mean what 20% gems give more profit then others?

Getting quality priotity is on gems supporting cyclone (and cyclone itself if you want increased AoE) like faster attacks, melee phys etc.

After that you can quality your damaging spells - don't bother with ethereal knives however as it only gives projectile speed.

Utility things like leap slam, auras etc there's generally not much point getting quality, blood rage however *is* worth getting it on.

If you're ever unsure, the wiki will tell you the quality bonus for the respective gem (e.g. https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ethereal_Knives)

Is carcass really the best choice? Is it making the cwdt spells that much better (as in it actually helps kill stuff that cyclone isn't already killing?) Is there no better utility/damage chest?

I'm really asking if you had other chest in mind before settling on carcass (and maybe using cwdt spells on other gear).