[3.0] Demon's Souls [Hiltless] Cyclone build | League starter | Shaper Down!


This is a cyclone build, that revolves around using the unique:

and its damage reflection effect "Enemies you Attack Reflect 100 Physical Damage to you" to trigger Cast When Damage Taken linked to spells to provide damage and utility.

Hiltless Reflect Damage Maths

I will attempt to do some quick maths as follows:

Based off my current character

7.5 attacks per second (with ancestral protector)

With 1800 armour, reflect damage calculation (formula from: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Armour):
1800 / (1800 + 10*100) = 64% mitigation =>
36 damage reflected per hit

Number of enemies hit:

1 enemy hit: 7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 1 enemy = 270 damage reflected per second => 3200/270 => ~12 seconds per trigger

2 enemies hit:
7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 2 enemy = 540 damage reflected per second => 3200/540 => ~6 seconds per trigger

4 enemies hit:
7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 4 enemy = 1080 damage reflected per second => 3200/1080 => ~3 seconds per trigger

8 enemies hit:
7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 8 enemy = 2160 damage reflected per second => 3200/2160 => ~1.5 seconds per trigger

16 enemies hit:
7.5 attacks per second * 36 damage reflected per hit * 16 enemy = 4320 damage reflected per second => 3200/4320 => 0.75 seconds per trigger




Note that the above calculations are based on having 1800 armour. It should give you a decent idea of how much the sword is contributing, the more monsters you're hitting the more it's helping - against bosses it's not so useful.

This ignores damage taken from monsters which also helps trigger your CWDT, against the harder bosses like shaper/guardians it's proccing almost constantly and adds a nice amount of damage, anything easier dies so fast it doesn't really matter.

TLDR: The amount that hiltless contributes towards triggering CWDT is situational, scaling off: A) how much armour you have (i.e. how much phys damage is being mitigated) and B) how many enemies you're hitting.
Against bosses it's less good. Packs of monsters get melted.


Path of Building pastebin

https://pastebin.com/rPwhjay7
This is only useful to people who make use of 'Path of Building'


Videos

Second Shaper kill

Youtube video: shaper kill take 2

Compared to the first kill (see other shaper vid), this is a lot cleaner.

Deaths breakdown:
1. Got shaper-slamed during cyclone animation, can't leap slam away mid-cyclone :(
2. Decided to flickerstrike-cull right into shaper beam, probably should have waited :P

Most definitely possible deathless!


First Shaper kill

Youtube video: Shaper kill

Took me till my last portal, but I got the sucker... thank god.

Here's a breakdown of my deaths:

1. Walked into a purple ball like an idiot
2. ????? Invisible projectile (if you know feel free to fill me in)
3. Just letting him get out of control, too much on the screen, no potions up
4. Trying to use leapslam + culling strike to finish him and somehow it not hitting him or something... he may have gone invincible prior to his bullet-hell move (?)
5. Zoned back in in the middle of bullet hell... RIP
6. he ded!

TLDR: If I practiced more and have some luck on my side, I could likely do it deathless. Not this is not really a shaper-killer build, I just wanted to prove it could be done, there are better skills to choose for killing shaper - cyclone is not the the best.

Beachhead T15 map full clear
Hydra guardian kill (Boss only - accidentally had level 1 culling strike equipped).
Maze of the minotaur (Temp Chains)




pros
  • Fun to play - Facetank and spin to win!
  • Budget friendly, the only item you need to get started is the cheap unique [Hiltless]
  • With 6+ spells linked to CWDT, the colours children, the colours!
  • Your damage scales with monster density, the more monsters you're hitting, the more you proc CWDT - destroys breaches & large packs of monsters
  • Great damage potential with only mediocre gear and 4 Links
  • Viable as a league starting build



cons
  • Life pool and cloaked in savagery are you defenses, not recommended in hardcore
  • Minmaxing your way to shaper can become expensive
  • Requires a lot of tweaking to make it reflect viable (too much effort really)
  • Getting resistance capped with so many uniques can be tough




Passive Tree

level 92 berserker poeplanner link
Notes
This is the passive tree with which I used to kill shaper. It is far more damage heavy that I would normally choose (this is to have enough damage to kill shaper), while underleveled/geared I would suggest focusing more on life (such as in the scion life wheel) than damage until you have minmaxed your gear/leveled up enough that survivability is less of a concern.

Leveling Tips


Before level 59
This build only gets started once you hit level 59, prior to this just use whatever high pdps two hand weapons you can find or buy.

Passives wise - you pretty much make a beeline for 'resolute technique' (keystone) and then 'vaal pact' (keystone). As you traverse the tree, pick up health / damage nodes as you see fit.
If you've ever short on dex or int, there are a couple of 30 point nodes which are either along the way, or 1-2 points off the beaten path which can help make up those missing stats until you can afford an 'astramentis' (amulet).

I'd also recommend leveling both your CWDT gems and spell skills in a weapon-swap for when you hit 59. If you've got some currency you can also just buy them at this level for cheap (underleveled spells typically go for ~1c or so)

Level 59+

Aim to have both 'vaal pact' (keystone) and 'cloaked in savagery' (ascendancy passive) for survivability by now if you can (or you may suffer) - I would recommend against going straight for aspect of carnage, even if it is tempting.

You've hit 59, so let the fun begin!!
Throw in CWDT with some spells in a couple of 4 links, some suggested spells are:
glacial cascade > bladefall > etherial knives > vortex > frost nova > shock nova > molten shell > whatever you like!

Auras:
Since you likely won't have the needed level 3 enlighten at the start of your build, I highly suggest running:
Hatred + Blasphemy + Poacher's mark (85% mana reservation)

Poacher's mark gives life on hit and which goes a long way to mitigating the reflect damage, which can really hurt early in the build. The frenzy charges generated are an added bonus.

Initially, blood-rage can be challenging to sustaining and if you're using poacher's mark you're already getting frenzy charges - it's only really needed once you want to crank up the damage.



My current gear


Gearing explanation


Note: Do not quality up your armour gear!
You'll notice I have 0% quality on all my armour peices - this is intentional as the more armour you have, the more hiltless's reflect damage is mitigated - this is not what you want!
This can also play a part in selecting your gear - attempt to aim for items that either have NO armour, or items with low armour rolls at a minimum.



The main unique this build revolves around. The damage reflection procs your CWDT, and innate blood magic allows you to get a free 7-link.
If you're too poor to afford to get your hands on a 6-Linked version, running a 4L + 2L is perfectly viable. You can run cyclone in the 4L and faster attacks + leapslam in the 2L
When buying one from poe.trade, be sure to try to aim for one whose PDPS is closer to 450 than 400, all things accounted for it can make a big difference to your eventual damage output.


Strength Stacking

Using [aberaths warpath] + [black sun crest helmet] gives you 33% increased strength.

This combined with [astramentis], [meginord's vice], 2x[inertia crimson jewel] and high strength rares has put me at 1300+ strength. This equates to 260% incrased melee physical damage, 260% spell damage (with iron will) and 650 life. Almost like a free kaom's (sort of), plus a respectable amount of spell damage (with 0 spell items and few passives).



I'm currently using the above rare gloves, crafted using the Essence of Insanity for the 16% more attack speed - this highly boots your movement speed with leap slam giving a nice QOL, and gives more life and damage on cyclone.
If you're unable to find or affort similarly stated rare gloves, Meginords is highly competitive and an awesome budget option.


Your rings and belt are going to be your main sources of resistance, getting resistance on a jewel or two can also help a lot.


If possible, try to get a nice socketed ring with reasonable stats (strength, life, resistances) in which to socket your herald of ash! This frees up much needed space elsewhere.


With the recent buffs carcass jack seems an obvious choie for both it's area increase and HUGE 50% effective damage increase. The life and resistances are the icing on the cake.
[Belly of the Beast] is another good option that provides marginally more life than [carcass jack], however less utility and damage.
Failing that, any good rare 5/6L chest with decent resists will also work quite well - bonus if you can get some strength on it too!
6L is nice, but not necessary.





Jewels


These are some example jewels with the kind stats you would want, jewels can also help fill in gaps in resistance or attributes that you might need to equip skills/items

The almost non-negotiable stat you'll want on jewels is +7% increased maximum life, after that it's mostly up to you.
Click here to see my poe.trade cheap jewel search URL

Click here to see my poe.trade expensive jewel search URL
Rough guide:
% life > % attack speed with swords > % area damage > % increased damage > % melee/sword phys/two hand damage > % resistances > +attributes


Two x[Inertia crimson jewel] are used in the two right-most sockets to convert a large amount of dexterity to strength. These jewels cost almost nothing and are roughly equivalent to VERY expensive counterpart in terms of life/damage etc. bang for buck they are amazing (when combined with black sun helmet and aberath's warpath boots)


Gem Skills Setup

Weapon 4Link + 2Link setup


4Link: Cyclone + Faster attacks + Melee Physical Damage + Concentrated Effect


2Link: Faster attacks + Leap slam

Weapon 5/6 Link Setup

Cyclone + Faster attacks + Melee Physical Damage + Concentrated Effect + Maim + Ruthless


Swap-in gems

Fortify + Increased Area of Effect
These two gems you swap in depending on the situation. Fortify can drastically increased your EHP when tanking bit hits like from chimera/minator bosses, and inc. area can help your clearspeed while clearing the trash mobs up the boss. If you're lazy just leave conc. effect in.

Socketed Ring

Sockets are really tight on this build, as such a socketed ring is a pretty perfect place for herald of ash to go.

Chest 5L setup

Cast when damage taken + Glacial cascade + Bladefall + Iron will + Etherial knives

Chest 6L setup

Cast when damage taken + Iron will + Bladefall + Glacial cascade + Etherial knives + controlled destruction

Helmet
See Aura Setup section for more details (below)
Starting out:

Hatred + Blasphemy + Poacher's Mark + (optionally) Enhance
Endgame:

Hatred + Blasphemy + Vulnerability + Enlighten (level 3) + [Herald of Ash wherever you can fit it]

Gloves & Boots


Blood Magic + Faster Attacks + Leap Slam + Ancestral Protector


Cast when damage taken + Lightning golem + Blood rage + Less duration
Less duration is used to make blood rage bearable, decreases its duration from 10 seconds to 5, so you don't drain your HP pool so much


Aura Setup Variations

Where possible, your auras should be put inside the [Black sun Crest helmet] to benefit enlighten/enhance for the +1 gems attribute.

Before you have level 3 enlighten:

Sustain:

Hatred + Blasphemy + Poacher's Mark (85% mana reservation)
This combination is useful if you're struggling to sustain the amount of self-damage inflicted by hiltless, while providing nice a nice boost from the frenzy charges generated on kill

Damage:
Hatred + Blasphemy + Vulnerability + (optionally) enhance (85% / 97.7% mana reservation)
This combination for maximum damage, enhance on vulnerability provides a BIG physical damage increase, however depending on the market can be quite pricey to get a higher level one.

With level 3 enlighten:
Hatred + Blasphemy + Vulnerability/Enfeeble + Enlighten + Herald of Ash (97% mana reservation)
With vulnerability, this is the max damage setup, you can optionally throw in enfeeble if you like, though I've found it to be subpar as the only thing that really kills you are bosses, and they get innate reduced curse effectiveness reducing its effect drastically, fortify is a better option if you need defences.


Critiques, comments or questions are welcome :-)
"there is no spoone" - The Matricks
Last edited by Zeekin on Sep 14, 2017, 11:38:35 PM
Last bumped on Apr 5, 2018, 3:37:45 PM
Shaper kill video added, guardian kill videos coming soon.
"there is no spoone" - The Matricks
Added hydra and minatour boss kills, will add more later.
"there is no spoone" - The Matricks
I knew I kept this wierd sword for a reason. Demon's fucking Souls indeed. Am going to give this build a spin. Thanks :)
Imma bump this one: For bosses, wouldn't CE be a better gem to use on chest as well? Using all them area spells/skills. Using another chest for bosses with single target spells/skills seem like a neat, and extremely expensive idea too.
"
H3avyM3tal wrote:
Imma bump this one: For bosses, wouldn't CE be a better gem to use on chest as well? Using all them area spells/skills. Using another chest for bosses with single target spells/skills seem like a neat, and extremely expensive idea too.


Depends what you're swapping with, with 1300 strength iron will adds 260% spell damage which is far more than CE would give.

If you're going to add any other support for damage, controlled destruction would be next - 44% more spell damage (works with EK too) with no real downside. CE might give marginally more damage, but for a lazy player like me i couldn't be bothered swapping it in and out all the time.

That said one of the nice things about this type of cwdt build is that you can largely customise it and experiment to see what works for you :)
"there is no spoone" - The Matricks
Last edited by Zeekin on Sep 3, 2017, 8:39:56 AM
Have you considered using the harbinger belt for reduced cooldown to trigger cwdt more? You probably would have to swap out Astra or get more res on jewels bc getting capped res would probably be impossible.

I think the 20% increased cooldown recovery would be a nice dps increase compared, combined with the attack speed.

"
mesnA wrote:
Have you considered using the harbinger belt for reduced cooldown to trigger cwdt more? You probably would have to swap out Astra or get more res on jewels bc getting capped res would probably be impossible.

I think the 20% increased cooldown recovery would be a nice dps increase compared, combined with the attack speed.



If you want to beef up your clear speed, it might be alright - the harbinger buff it gives is certainly nice.

With a perfect belt (20% faster cooldown on CWDT) it'd only increase trigger count to 5 times per second instead of 4... I don't feel it's worth it, as you lose so many stats and it's pretty rare that you'll actually manage to proc your cwdt consistently enough to make it worthwhile.

The time that you need damage most is against bosses, and they typically won't cause you to trigger cwdt more than 2/3 times per second (some exceptions).

At the moment I probably wouldn't consider it as you lose too many raw stats (strength / life / resists)

"there is no spoone" - The Matricks
Last edited by Zeekin on Sep 4, 2017, 5:08:29 AM
Nice build. I'm trying it out right now.

I do have a question though. In your Carcass jack you have:

Cast when damage taken + Glacial cascade + Bladefall + Iron will + Etherial knives (+ herald of ash, but doesn't need to go here).

aint there a better choice for a 6th support gem here instead of Herald of Ash. Seems kinda wasted when you do have 6 linked.
"
Darkeraz wrote:
Nice build. I'm trying it out right now.

I do have a question though. In your Carcass jack you have:

Cast when damage taken + Glacial cascade + Bladefall + Iron will + Etherial knives (+ herald of ash, but doesn't need to go here).

aint there a better choice for a 6th support gem here instead of Herald of Ash. Seems kinda wasted when you do have 6 linked.


Short answer - yes, controlled destruction (blue socket) or added fire (red socket).

Long answer - I ran out of sockets and it was the only place I could fit herald of Ash while keeping ancestral totem (need for DPS on shaper) and less duration support (linked with bloodrage for quality of life).

If I really want that 6th support I'd recolour my carcass to fit CD and probably swap less duration for HoA and somehow put up with bloodrage draining ~40% of my life over 10 seconds.

Problem is, if I decided that I didn't like 10 second bloodrage I'd need to recolour my carcass jack back to 3 red sockets which was initially painful to do, so I think I'd rather avoid it for now and stick with my current setup.




To provide some more context, in an earlier version of this build (I've been playing it since start of league and it has gone through many iterations), I was actually using [Repentance Crusader Gloves] which have inbuilt iron will, and using controlled destruction and added fire damage in my chest 6L with CWDT/spells, however I ended up dropping them as the stats requirement was too high (requires 306 INT), and the gloves added very little stats wise - dropping them allowed me to drop a lot of life/stat nodes and pick up a heap more damage nodes (optimising my passive tree).

I determined that the majority of your single target damage has to come from cyclone, as relying on CWDT against bosses is too inconsistent to be reliable. The CWDT spells are mostly useful for increased clear speed of trash monsters/leeching from range (e.g. if something knocks a chunk of your HP off from range, CWDT+cloaked in savagery heals you right backup!).



"there is no spoone" - The Matricks
Last edited by Zeekin on Sep 4, 2017, 10:48:37 PM

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