[Discussion] Api sniper fest vs the regular player-base

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suszterpatt wrote:

I have made this point in the past here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1876745

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suszterpatt wrote:

Let's say we have 2 players. Bob the Botter is running a fully automated trade bot. Trevor the Trader is running an indexer that lets him jump on good deals within seconds of them being advertised.

You're saying that what Bob's doing is wrong, but what Trevor's doing is fine.

My point is that to any outside observer, what Bob and Trevor are doing is completely indistinguishable. They both enable price fixing in exactly the same way, and have the exact same effect on the economy. So by what measure is Trevor in the clear when Bob isn't?

The rationalizations were hilarious.

While i understand your logic, i think your example fails to expose a main issue.

If GGG considers trading to be a part of the game, then that imply's that people utilizing software to automate this process for them are in fact automating a part of the game which is against the ToS.

Similar to the whole "woop" business on xyz itself.

It excludes the human interaction of the trading part of the game.

It's this exclusion of the human investment or interaction in relation to trading that is detrimental to the game as a whole, since it divides the player-base on an ethical basis.
And i'm not talking about human interaction in trading with other players, but the interaction of browsing items manually and actually making a decision to either play the game or invest time in trading.

This can be considered a "skill" to invest time in A or B when it is most profitable to do either one.

In the current system this "skill" is negated entirely and replaced by automation and anybody not participating in the automation is neglected or left behind.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit :

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iolanthe wrote:

As for this topic itself, don't get mad that you couldn't be the first person to grab a low priced item. In any other format it would be the exact same situation unless the game itself dictated prices of items for you on a public market. Buy low/sell high has always been a way to make currency; if you are willing to put in the effort to grab these items and run third party applications than you'll reap the rewards.

I suggest you put more effort into reading comprehension.

Also, bitch please.

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Boem wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

I have made this point in the past here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1876745

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suszterpatt wrote:

Let's say we have 2 players. Bob the Botter is running a fully automated trade bot. Trevor the Trader is running an indexer that lets him jump on good deals within seconds of them being advertised.

You're saying that what Bob's doing is wrong, but what Trevor's doing is fine.

My point is that to any outside observer, what Bob and Trevor are doing is completely indistinguishable. They both enable price fixing in exactly the same way, and have the exact same effect on the economy. So by what measure is Trevor in the clear when Bob isn't?

The rationalizations were hilarious.

While i understand your logic, i think your example fails to expose a main issue.

If GGG considers trading to be a part of the game, then that imply's that people utilizing software to automate this process for them are in fact automating a part of the game which is against the ToS.

Similar to the whole "woop" business on xyz itself.

It excludes the human interaction of the trading part of the game.

It's this exclusion of the human investment or interaction in relation to trading that is detrimental to the game as a whole, since it divides the player-base on an ethical basis.
And i'm not talking about human interaction in trading with other players, but the interaction of browsing items manually and actually making a decision to either play the game or invest time in trading.

This can be considered a "skill" to invest time in A or B when it is most profitable to do either one.

In the current system this "skill" is negated entirely and replaced by automation and anybody not participating in the automation is neglected or left behind.

Peace,

-Boem-

That's pretty much exactly where I was going with that. GGG declares botting illegal, and at the same time releases and condones tools that automate trading to such a degree that it's indistinguishable from botting.

But hey, as long as it's an excuse for not having to write an actual trade system, it's all good, right?

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skarrmania wrote:

I witnessed a literal +20 and +50 chaos re-post of the SAME Belly of the beast this morning. Went from 90 to 160 in a span of 2-3min...these people are worse than blood-sucking parasites.

It's definitely a hard item to get right now. Everyone you message never replies because "someone" else snagged it up instantly. I have witnessed this with several different items. If you want a well rolled core item at a decent price, good luck...

Edit - It's also funny seeing all those ilvl 40 Belly of the beasts with 5 max sockets. Is there no better way of using the prophecy in 3.0?

Dear blog,

Sold a rise of the phoenix for 20C and a belly of the beast for 38C today.

Both items clearly targeted by api fuckers, got flooded instantly.

Sold the RotP to a chieftan with RF in the name and the belly to a sunder dude, had a talk with both of em.
Both where grateful and polite and didn't spam me with the usual "bro you there, you there" 10x in a row.

It's come a long way where i as a seller have to dig out the dirt in order to sell an item to somebody genuinely interested in the item as a player rather then the potential flipping profit.

Peace,

-Boem-

I only make money with snipping/flipping. Everything I have is from it because I refuse to "farm" as in I refuse to do more than same map in row and play for fun otherwise.
Just way it is. It will be always more efficient to buy low sell high... why you think hedge fund managers are so rich compared to say RL farmers who work 12 hrs a day?

there are ways to make bots life harder but it seems no one gives a dam about them running rampant.

long time ago i use to play a game with a similar problem and to solve it they end creating a fast paced auction house, yes the so dreaded auction house.


to put it in POE terms

step 1: player placed an item and its base cost

step 2: buyers would then place offers, after the base was met (item base cost set up in step 1) a timmer of 5-10 min will kick in.

step 3: once the timmer reach 0 the seller will be given 2-3 minutes to select one of the offers, in case the seller wont select an offer the game will select the offer with the base cost.

step 4: both item and currency are sent to an NPC that will keep them until retrieved by the players

that should solve most of the current problems:

1) give humans the chance to compete with bots by removing instant buyouts
2)prevent people from creating fake sales
3) prevent afks
4) dosent force players to abandon lab or maps, they can retrieve the item later on

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I only make money with snipping/flipping. Everything I have is from it because I refuse to "farm" as in I refuse to do more than same map in row and play for fun otherwise.
Just way it is. It will be always more efficient to buy low sell high... why you think hedge fund managers are so rich compared to say RL farmers who work 12 hrs a day?

Aim, your smarter then this.

This thread is not about the practice of flipping, i have no issue with people flipping for profit.
They provide a service to the community, want something quick go buy from a flipper, want something cheap then wait it out and find a deal.

But here is the issue, in today's api infested PoE you can't "wait it out" and find a deal.

Or, your forced to join the api snipe fest club in order to do so.
And that's quite sad, the actual "trading game" has become fully automated which leaves out decision making like spending time on trade vs playing maps.
Which was a good way to balance out power among players.

with that balance factor gone, the game shifts entirely in favor of pure trade abuses being the most efficient strategies.

The gap between playing vs trading just increased by a fuck-ton with the increase in population(off-load market) and evolving api software/creators.

Peace,

-Boem-

I have already been warned about the whole pay to win thing... So im going to try and post this without stepping on the wrong toes.

When a league starts it puts into action the pay to win thing. The players that pay to win ( Note- I did not say real money )drive this market.

There is a huge rush to meet the need...

Yes GGG knows its going on but guess what? folks that can pay to win ( Disclaimer - Pay to win is chaos not real money )also buy supporter packs ( with real money ).

So once you know this bot ridden pay to win crap is going on you can at least use it to your advantage. As a disabled vet im anything but rich... So my first toon is always an orb gatherer. Something that can run t1-t6 fast with lots of ir/iq.

Within 3 days of start of league I had the stuff below just from selling orbs to the pay to win crowd. Those wonderful folks on xyz that manipulate the crap out of our market.





Your not going to beat the script kiddies... So get your crap and get out. Don't play their game.

NS

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Jerle wrote:

Dang. So this is why I can't buy jack shit this league.

Oddly I mentioned this about the beta too.

I am not sure what has happened, but it has gotten much worse recently.

Im not pointing fingers or honestly even know what is going on, but its much worse than 6 months ago and seems to be only getting worse.

rei

Pretty sure the endgame is to drive the RMT market.

"What's that? You can't afford 25ex for this Atziri's Promise? Tell you what, you can have it for just $5!"