Player interaction and trading

One word: disgusting.
What is happening lately with all the new people coming to PoE is absolutely horrible experience so I say we seriously need some regulation from GGG.
People know they wil never be punished so its full of scamming, abusing, cheating, harassing etc. Honestly, I play the game for very long time, but if i were a new guy here, Id probably quit purely cos of the aholes permanently trying to steal my currency, which would certainly happen.

The league started with massive duping, a lot of ppl profited hugely on it, only few were punished. These ppl then played rest of the league in a completely different universe. Im not gonna call names, we know them, but I take it, this was the first time something like this happened.

But there are other things like constantly being spammed by people trying to f*ck with me, offering 10%-50% of the item's real price. As a new player, its very hard to get a good items/currency and with this meta, even if they are lucky, its probably gonna be stolen from them anyway...

Another thing what happened to me is when I often offer challenge completitions to ppl in global/trade chat. Sometimes for free, sometimes for payment. Multiple times a guy joined in, didnt pay, stole all the loot and in best scenario, he laught at us and left. Why? Because he knows, theres no punishment for that.

There are tons of other well known issues I didnt mention like price fixing, 19/20 ppl I whisper for an item are afk etc etc. For example, I'm owner of some very expensive alt arts. Can you imagine, what crazy flipper hunt started on me when I listed my AA Cloak of Flame for sale, cos I'm interested in buying AA Alpha's howl instead?

I dare to say that majority of people playing SSF did/does that because trading and player interaction lately is absolutely horrible experience. I think we really need at least semi-hybrid auction house or way better code of conduct, because right now people know that the easiest way to get rich is abusing others good will and new players and theres no way they could be punished for that. Not even talking about permanently being insulted just cos I refuse their scam offers etc. Like WTF?

And the last thing, my idea to fix at least part of the trading problem is that we could use some hybrid AH, that would allow us trade without our leaving map, probably just some confirmation check YES/NO and if the guy refuses to sell the item for the listed price multiple times, just delist him. This could fix the issue with afk/ignoring ppl cos of low value items and price fixers listing their items for way lower prices and abusing it.


Sorry for the wall of text, my crappy english and feel free to share your opinions! Except the ones disagreeing with me...JK, cya in Wraeclast.
Last bumped on May 30, 2017, 7:58:15 AM
hello there !

i had a better experience with trading so far.

the better advice i can give is : don't be emotional.

sure there is plenty of price fixers, multiple AFK, spammers, scammers (they fail 99.9% of the time), but overall, most of my trades went just fine, i would say 80% are fast and anbout 1-5% are friendly and lead to some nice chat/partying together.

i apply this rules when i'm the seller :

- People offer ridiculous prices : simply answer no thanks, nothing more.
- People take too mutch time to join your HO, don't accept trade request lasting 5 sec 3 times in a row : party kick, and ignore if they aren't happy with it
- People offer other currency than those agreed upon without notice : party kick, and ignore if they aren't happy with it
- people acting fishy (taking ages to put currency in the trade tab, not putting right price, mutiple trade cancel etc...) party kick and ignore list
- people spamming, sending multiple invite : ignore list

when i'm the buyer :

- alway be ready with the right amount of currency in inventory when i ask for a trade
- be quick
- wait for the seller to initiate the exchange
- always be polite and thanks the seller
- when i offer a lower prices/alternative currencies for an item, i alway make sure it's in a second pm following the first so there is no misunderstanding
- initiate discussions when i fell like to and the seller is friendly

for high value items, i tend to make middle range price so i avoid most scam attempts and spam rain.

i had a weird intereaction one day : i was playing for a few hours and was in "rush mode" playing fast, vendoring fast and trading fast. i had a trade request for a 10c amulet. i invite the guy, take the item, initiate trade, the guy put 2c in the tab, i accept without checking. we thanks each other and the guy leave. then i realise the item was 10c and i only got 2. so i start flamming the guy for a lame 8c scam, i was furious. no answer... after 1 min, i had a reply, i was talking to a guy i traded with just before... so i pmed the guy that scammed me and it turned out he mixed trade prices up by doing multiple trades at the same time, invited me to his party to refund. i offered him the 8c and we played together a for a wile.

have fun and don't take trades too seriously ;)
Last edited by Zboublemeteor on May 28, 2017, 11:21:35 AM
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nikeyla wrote:
The league started with massive duping, a lot of ppl profited hugely on it, only few were punished. These ppl then played rest of the league in a completely different universe. Im not gonna call names, we know them, but I take it, this was the first time something like this happened.


Sadly no it wasn't the first time.
GGG made the choice to keep trading like it is and honestly i gave up on expecting anything from them on this part.

Some companies just put some barrier on everything they fear about, then barrier become excuses, then false excuses and where we are atm is clearly a concluion from them that trading isn't probably that bad if people are keep buying MTX and supporter pack, and after all it might be true they have the numbers or at least collect datas. ( i'm not even sure anymore about that ).

Deal with it ( sorry i wishe i could say nicer words to you but that's it, i will probably save you a lot of time acting this way ), and if trading make your experience in PoE as bad as it is for me then just play others games like i do and many others players :)

I enjoy way more PoE now that i'm playing it 3 hours a week and keep my time for playing something else ^^

My conclusion after these 4 years is GGG never wanted to manage an economy and it's still the case.

SSF is kinda the emergency solution actualy :)
Hf :)
They want "player interaction" as a way of foiling botting. It's not about their thinking that all interactions will be golden. It's about keeping a check on automatically purchasing items put up for sale cheap and auto-selling items purchased at a markup. Other games have had problems with this. PoE would too if they allowed something like an auction house or a consignment shop. They figure that players will police the system better than they could.
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Shagsbeard wrote:
They want "player interaction" as a way of foiling botting. It's not about their thinking that all interactions will be golden. It's about keeping a check on automatically purchasing items put up for sale cheap and auto-selling items purchased at a markup. Other games have had problems with this. PoE would too if they allowed something like an auction house or a consignment shop. They figure that players will police the system better than they could.


I think the kind of hybrid AH I mentioned could fix both, afkers, price fixers and still there is player's consent requried so bots wouldnt be a problem.

@Heli0nix I dont think playing other games is the solution here. Poe is one of the best if not best game I ever played despite these horrible player interaction issues. It was never an issue until poe started growing into a big fish and more ppl stareted to be interested, that includes botters, scammers or just average aholes. SSF definitely isnt a solution, online games are about being in contact with other people, but my point is that there must be some regulation. Doesnt matter how many reports you send, what they do or say, they never get any punishment at all. And they know it so they just act like savages, not like a normal human beings.

@Zboublemeteor and what do you do when you decline their ridiculous offer and they start full ape sh*t on you talking how stupid, raging, ignorant are you and how you know nothing about the "economy"? Because this happens on daily basis while I dont even know who they are or what Ive done to them. I cant ignore everybody, cos that would drasticaly reduce my chances to buy something. But even if they pretty much insult me like 10 times in a minute, I can report them, but still there are no real punishments, so why would they stop. Maybe Im just unlucky about all these ppl, but I just dont feel this is right.
"
nikeyla wrote:
@Zboublemeteor and what do you do when you decline their ridiculous offer and they start full ape sh*t on you talking how stupid, raging, ignorant are you and how you know nothing about the "economy"? Because this happens on daily basis while I dont even know who they are or what Ive done to them. I cant ignore everybody, cos that would drasticaly reduce my chances to buy something. But even if they pretty much insult me like 10 times in a minute, I can report them, but still there are no real punishments, so why would they stop. Maybe Im just unlucky about all these ppl, but I just dont feel this is right.


By going full retard they identify themselves as toxic players, and since i don't want to interact with toxic morons, i am just glad that i can cut all inteactions with those players and never have to read their nonsense again. i don't see this as a potential buyer loss, i see this as something positive, saving my time in the future.

there are plenty of polite and reliable players that will still want to buy your stuff.

i added 3 different players on my ignore list just for the sale of my 6 link hegemony's era this week.

"your price is too high you'll never sell it dumb fuck"

well in the end, i sold it the price i listed it for, and the buyer was nice and polite.
Last edited by Zboublemeteor on May 28, 2017, 2:08:15 PM
I am a newer player to PoE, been playing for about 3 months.. I've only had 2 negative experiences with trading out of hundreds so far.. So it hasn't been bad at all.

On one occasion I was going to buy a rare jewel from some fellow, went to his hideout, put the 5 chaos or whatever in trade when he trade requested, he put the jewel in.. But instead of just quickly mousing over it to enable the trade, I actually took a second to look if it matched what he was selling (which it didn't match at all, it was some random rare jewel with shit stats). Dunno if it was an honest mistake, or if he was trying to screw me, but I promptly said "That is not the item I sent the trade offer for".. He then swapped the item a few seconds later and I got what was listed.

Second one, I was selling something, some dude messages me the automated trade offer, I invite him to party and leave my map to go trade him... Anyways, AFTER I leave my map and he gets to my hideout he immediately starts trying to bargain with me for it (considered terrible etiquette), as opposed to trying to bargain BEFORE actually sending a trade offer and stuff and joining party. I promptly told him to gtfo, kicked him from party, and went back to my map. Had he just done it the legit way and gave me a bargaining type offer via whisper before joining party and sending the trade offer, I would have definitely given him the deal.

And then of course you also have your more veteran players that try to take advantage of new players and the public premium stash tabs... Scoping out people that have more valuable items on poe.trade without a price, and trying to send an offer for like 1/4 of what the actual item is worth. Had 1 person try to do this and offer me 5 chaos for an item I easily could have sold for 15-20. Luckily even though I'm new and don't know what a lot of stuff is worth, I do my research on every item to know its relative value.
Last edited by Enzymaticc on May 28, 2017, 2:55:16 PM
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Shagsbeard wrote:
They want "player interaction" as a way of foiling botting. It's not about their thinking that all interactions will be golden. It's about keeping a check on automatically purchasing items put up for sale cheap and auto-selling items purchased at a markup. Other games have had problems with this. PoE would too if they allowed something like an auction house or a consignment shop. They figure that players will police the system better than they could.


Did chris mention botting when he was talking about this?

It seemed like he was talking about regular players who trade gaining lots of power quickly.

I can see why you would consider botting to be a part of that, but was it the real focus?
Let a man walk alone -
Let him commit no sin.
Let him bear few wishes,
Like an elephant in the forest.
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Shagsbeard wrote:
They want "player interaction" as a way of foiling botting.


Talking about excuses that became false excuses.
They want "player interaction" ?

Alright so what about creating these interactions trought EVERYTHING that is already ready to welcome them like in every others games since ... games exist at all, starting by grouping, guilds, helping and so on ?


"
nikeyla wrote:
@Heli0nix I dont think playing other games is the solution here. Poe is one of the best if not best game I ever played despite these horrible player interaction issues. It was never an issue until poe started growing into a big fish and more ppl stareted to be interested, that includes botters, scammers or just average aholes. SSF definitely isnt a solution, online games are about being in contact with other people, but my point is that there must be some regulation. Doesnt matter how many reports you send, what they do or say, they never get any punishment at all. And they know it so they just act like savages, not like a normal human beings.


It was already an issue back in days. The sample was just smaller and it was maybe harder for GGG to confirm or not trading was slowly jumping from a good design to a big mistake.

Game was already botted and full of scammers too. But it was less heavy than now sure :) Also let's say it was a common behavior to join the dark side. Now there is a larger public, except this system has been keep updated for the smaller and older public the game was targeting before, without thinking one second it would change one day.
I did be interested to collect datas on how much time it take to new player to discover poe.trade and the 50000 third party tools that come with. In my experience all players i tried to bring to PoE never discovered those by themselves. Because they don't give a shit about reddit or forum that's not a common behavior to get these informations with others games, why would they with PoE ?
At some point maybe GGG could at least consider putting some direct links ingame pointing to useful tools list / gamepedia and so on ( but legaly i guess they would put themselves as responsible of problems with third party tools and that's not what they want correct me if i'm wrong ).

You can try to put some regulation over a system like that, it will always fail hard. GGG can't hire 500 employees dedicated to this job and even if they were doing it, the biggest scams that happen tend to just push out of the game forever player that got scammed. Waste of time, money and effort. Maybe there are some others way to do it i'm not saying it's a bad idea just that i see it as hardly possible :)

Now one thing that can be surely done, i think in 4 years it has been considered ... could be to stop communicating officialy about trading. Because each time GGG say something about it 500 MTX are disapearing from their possible income.
The second thing would be to at least remove backtracking while mapping / lab and so on.
You get the message from poe.trade => Click on yes / no / I WANT TO DISCUSS when you are done with map if both parties accepted you get your item ! This is the exact same thing than now except it remove a big hassle that make trading TOO HEAVY to be a good moment. That's just a suggestion that fit well with what i would like to see, and what GGG could eventualy accept.
Hf :)
This is how GGG wants it.

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