Restricting escapes (tp/logout)

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Omenpapa wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they also said at some point that the desynch was/is a design decision, in order to let ppl playing the game with wierd internet connections.

They found a solution for that, if they want(which made the a lot of players happy), they can found a solution for this too :)

It was a design flaw that they thought they could live with before the game became higher paced and it started to become really noticeable. Back then they didnt really have the resources to work on a solid netcode and they thought they could get away with d2 esque quality.

The decision to include logout timers is just asking every player to be at the complete mercy of his ISP. Not to mention that many people would just turtle up in general, never doing any risky content that they'd otherwise consider because of the "safety" you get with a logout macro.

Ask some people who play hardcore a lot, how often the added security of a logout macro got them into a situation where they actually got killed. You'll notice its a complete wash. Logout macros kill as many people as a logout timers would, with the downside of people not attempting any risky content ever unless they are bored with their character.

So, apples and apache helicopters. Just cant compare them.

I watch PoE streaming frequently and I want HC streams to rip more often then currently they do so that the viewer can enjoy more.


My suggestion is:

only in HC, make it less effective the instant logout (TP out is reasonable I think)

SC stays the same

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Cataca wrote:

It was a design flaw that they thought they could live with before the game became higher paced and it started to become really noticeable. Back then they didnt really have the resources to work on a solid netcode and they thought they could get away with d2 esque quality.

The decision to include logout timers is just asking every player to be at the complete mercy of his ISP. Not to mention that many people would just turtle up in general, never doing any risky content that they'd otherwise consider because of the "safety" you get with a logout macro.

So, apples and apache helicopters. Just cant compare them.

I wouldn't call them apples and apache helicopters :)

Desynch was a design flaw, and I also consider the need of having a logout macro, or in other words balancing the content around based on logout macros to be a design flaw. With better balancing,(which indeed would require more resources what GGG have or not have at this time) this "game element" to interrupt the gameplay should be removed.

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Cataca wrote:

The decision to include logout timers is just asking every player to be at the complete mercy of his ISP.

Even with or w/o such macros, isn't this still true? If your internet goes away, then you are most likely dead if you aren't in a safe place. The game is an MMO afterall, no singleplayer / offline gameplay implemented, even when you are playing solo you are connected to the servers and if you have net issues, you will suffer the consequences.

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Cataca wrote:

Not to mention that many people would just turtle up in general...

That is a really good point here. This is 1 of the reasons what I find to be an issue if I would play HC. On the other hand doing risky content and just altf4 ing the game is an even less enjoyable gameplay flow, at least to me. You should never gain any benefit for actually leaving the game/logging out.. if you do I consider that as a design flaw. Yes this includes logging out for fast "tp to town" too, or the autosave locations after you killed a boss.

This should be in feedback and suggestions, got nothing to do with GD, as OP both gives feedback and suggestion based on feedback.

On topic, if op lacks mental fortitude not to use easy ways out in hc, thats on him, not on ggg side to fix. Restricting gameplay is the never the way out, it is better to leave things as they are but make it so that player doesn't have the need to use such tactics.

It is harder to think of how to do so, but less restricting than using WoW methods.

I do occasional reset the boss fight manually if I die during one as I feel I have to survive it or my build is a failure.

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Necromael wrote:

On topic, if op lacks mental fortitude not to use easy ways out in hc, thats on him, not on ggg side to fix. Restricting gameplay is the never the way out, it is better to leave things as they are but make it so that player doesn't have the need to use such tactics.

It is harder to think of how to do so, but less restricting than using WoW methods.

This is not about mental fortitude for me :) I can "enforce" any rule to myself w/o any issues, that is why I never trade. This is more about enable party play for me, w/o the issue of trusting random players. I would like to play this game in a multiplayer fashion, but it would ruin it for me, if the other players would trade/use logoutmacros etc. Yea, this means I pretty much play alone.

And just for clarification. I'm not talking about globally changing this, and forcing these rules to every single player out there. I'm just asking for a clickable ruleset, just like how SSF is implemented.

@aim_deep
Wow man. One of us must have done something really bad to you. I don't even want to quote it.

There's an answer to OP's question that's a matter of record and completely separate from anyone's opinion. GGG has been pretty straight on this topic every time someone has managed to get any kind of official word from them.

Because endgame content in PoE relies on stacking random difficulty modifiers on top of carefully balanced boss encounters - circumstance can be a real bitch in PoE. GGG made a conscious decision to put escape within easy reach at all times, because the end result is these encounters aren't really balanced for the randomness that gets added on top of them.

It'd certainly be more in theme if escape was restricted in some kind of more realistic way, and most of us would adapt just fine if some kind of system like that got put in. But the design team at GGG don't seem interested and their justification is at least coherent.

When God himself calls something just, there's no point clinging to a sense of injustice. There's even less point in trying to shame the people who engage in this type of behavior (which again has been blessed by GGG both in word and action). It serves no purpose but to keep adding mortar to an old wall that needs to come down. Instead, appeal to the design team and convince them that your principles are the right ones. I won't get in your way.

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Omenpapa wrote:

I always found it silly how we can just open a portal middle of a bossfight, go home, refill our potions then go back to the same exact time, when we left, meaning the boss we were fighting did not reset.

I loved how lab changed this, and also the maps kinda restricting this too, with a limited amount of portals.. but in general, why is it allowed?

Also why can we just kill the client to escape a risky situation? Our char should be there for an extra 15-30 secs even when our client is off, like other MMOs doing this.

These changes as any changes which makes the game harder would probably not be too popular among the HC players.. What I'm asking here is an on/off mode, similiar to SSF/HC for the likeminded players.

I dont like those "escapes" too.

Usually, more advanced games (most MMORPGs, for example), add "cast time" for TP/logout (so if you survive those several seconds of AFK, you can escape) and/or enemy reset after character escaped (i.e. boss restores HP, dungeos is reset, etc.).

It's too "cheesy" to have instant escape when you play HC. It forces game developers to introduce more "oneshot mechanics", to balance instant escapes. And "oneshot mechanics" are the worst things you can imagine for HC.

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A:It's currently an accepted playstyle that allows us to design bosses to be more interesting. If you're locked in to *absolutely having to kill it with no hope of escape* then it has to be an easier fight.

what Chris said on the subject

Ye they must put those restricting escape timer and also Hostile button so they cannot escape seems legit to me

Also POE is to diablo1-2 as POE is not to diablo3-wow deal with it :)