Melee builds are complete trash
" That's honestly a collection of really bizarre thought processes... "Perfect balance in a game like this is impossible..." Well, it depends on what you regard as perfect balance. Is perfect balance a state where every build does everything equally well? Or is it one where all builds are roughly on par, each with their own pros and cons that make them more suited to specific playstyles? If it's the former, then that is impossible and outright dumb. The latter though? Not actually that hard accomplish. You just have to spend more than 5 minutes having a look at some common sense things. Such as "Melee takes more damage than Ranged, because they have to sit in enemies AA range to do stuff. Maybe they should get easier access to defences to mitigate this?" Or things like "Single target skills suck big fat donkey balls compared to AoE skills that out damage them even on single targets. Perhaps these single target skills should be given access to things that make them valuable?" Maybe even "Instant Leech takes a huge dump on both Regeneration and regular Leech. All of which laugh maniacally at ES Recharge. Maybe something should be done to make things more balanced between them?" "It is much better to have changing balance over time..." Changing balance is good. Power creep is not. You can change balance by adding new things that don't just outperform old things, but still challenges players to make new builds instead of sticking to their old tried and true ones. New uniques with build defining effect, new support gems to change how skills work (Instead of sticking to just "More damage", "More damage", "More damage" and "More AoE" gems), new interactions between skills (For example, like how Contagion and Essence Drain interact. Or if you want to take from other RPG's, DnD's Grease Fire combo) All these can shift "Balance" without power creeping. Which is good, because Power Creep is the toxic cancer that kills games. Power Creep renders things obsolete. It makes content worthless. It pushes the bar for what new content requires (You start having to balance around the new strongest builds so as to not make these build trivialize the content, which at the same time makes any previous build that's weaker completely redundant) Heck, Power Creep is soon going to have a bigger impact. Once 3.0 comes around and we no longer loop Acts 1-4, power creep can end up making acts 1-9 irrelevant content. So all this time and effort they're putting into designing it, could be made worthless because everyone will just zerg through it at 9000 MPH because someone thought it was a good idea to just keep adding new shit with inflated numbers to make people try it... | |
" I joked the other day about "melee is fine" guys and how they like to jump in various threads and "debunk" the "melee is trash" guys by mentioning their "I'm doing just fine with melee, I'm only lvl 80 though, but it's fine" | |
" Totally agree. Come back when you're level 90+ and we can talk about things. The majority of Melee builds I play hit the wall at 85-90 and that's it. Their is no way to optimize these builds to be effective past that bar on grinding lower level maps to gain levels which is just moronic because you're supposed to be getting a feeling of progression. Investing 20 exals in a character and seeing zero change in how effective they are is like slamming your head against a wall. Hell, I could invest 40 exals and I doubt anything would change. Anything in relation to defences has been stripped slowly patch by patch from melee characters to the point where you're either a glass cannon or you sacrifice huge damage for tankyness which again later becomes useless because, you simply cannot keep up with leech or again you're open to one shot mechanics. Seeing a SPARK build being able to clear t-16+ maps whilest being able to kite and leech at the same time, avoiding damage but healing itself constantly and also being able to stack ES to the high heavens is just insane... most ES characters I see have bar on 14k+ energy shield, this is almost DOUBLE, ANY life build. Unless you're willing to give up a lot to wear that Kaoms everyone is talking about... which again took a huge nerf patches back and has become semi-effective, not to mention the fact they won't put a legacy kaoms in the ancient reliquary key boxes. Even if they did do that you're talking 30-40 maybe 60 exals of investment to make up for it. I get melee is supposed to be challenging but I might as well hit my head against a table a few hundred times instead of force myself to level on higher tier maps. It's more fun. I'm beginning to give up on this company and this game in general because there are far too many issues about balance that are just never addressed... I doubt they ever will be. | |
" ...at that point you're still getting ~10% xp/map in tier 8-12. " While there were some nerfs, we also gained... *fortify *basalt flasks (and a bunch more defensive flasks) *better temp chain / enfeeble cursing with blasphemy *new possibilities to gain Endurance Charges *block got nerfed and is back again, better than before *a 4000 armour chestpiece *a life version of Aegis Aurora *a 1000 armour, life + 3% max resist shield And that's just defenses. Damage output more than doubled over the last couple seasons. " Old Kaom's is back. But we're talking more than 60 ex here. 3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
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" Nothing in this list has anything to do with Melee. Although they never had good defenses to begin with, however the game was much more one dimensional back when melee was good for the last time which was back during the Beta. Melee isn't as bad as it was a few patches before. But there are two issues Weapons are so much harder to get than a lvl20 spell and on top of that there are still a lot of mechanics that are unnecessarily punishing for melees. | |
" well.. ranged players also got all these items you've listed. what also changed is that there are more and more damage sources that typical setup (AR/EV) simply bypass. game also is more hectic than ever - with all this gfx vomit all over the place (attempted double beyond/breech 8mod map - had 2-3 beyond bosses on the screen) also - spell block is pretty much mandatory currently with all this spell damage thrown at players. what nicely aligns with characters that people defending current situation play - gladiators/aegis/surrenders.. chilled ground, -max, breach, beyond with nice density WITHOUT a spell block. had plenty of time admiring beyond bosses in that map and i have to ask one thing: what % of damage they do a melee player can mitigate with AR/EV/end charges? because most of the crap thrown around has fancy collors and looks like spells.. btw how is that cleave build of yours going? mine is at lvl 89, playstyle is tedious, damage is pathetic (AOE coverage is miniscule) and i cannot see any reason to play it over any spell out there.. but maybe i have too high expectations. it is melee skill after all | |
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Peterlerock joined the "melee is fine" dudes, unfortunately.
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" That doesn't make it any worse for melee. " You need some defense against spells, and spell block is one of them, if you happen to be a gladiator. On my jugger, I just used Ahn's Heritage + a purity + flasks + EC life regen, was fine as well. A lot of the colourful stuff flying around isn't really hurting, even if if looks dangerous. " He's doing fine. Damage is alright. Hideout ~80k/130k with inc Aoe or conc, and then a bunch more with charges and flasks (PoB tells me ~300-400k, whatever those numbers are supposed to mean). AoE could be better, but is fine. I'm only using Cleave because of the free 7-Link fortify. Defenses are more than alright atm (tier 11-14). 5.8k life, 8k armour (+x from surrender), 8k evasion (+x from frenzies), some block/spell block (~50-60%). Currently saving up for Red Nightmare to fill block without any investment. " ...and... " I stopped comparing melee to ranged/spells a long time ago. It's just a different game. I played my fair share of CI, spells and bow builds in the past, and I just don't like it. There's no point in even playing this for me, other than "loot" and "xp" (and we all how how horrible the loot is in this game and how f...ing tedious levelling is after 90 (today maybe 92-94, we have higher maps now). When I play a game, I want challenges and decisions. And I want to die, when I make mistakes. I want to feel good when I finally beat something I didn't beat before. I joined this game when it promised some hardcore gaming experience. So yes, I like where melee is currently sitting. I'm on the "melee is fine" team. I'm 100% fine with "most builds can not put t15+ on autofarm" or "if you venture into guardians in HC, you'll probably just end up in standard". I'd rather cripple spells and ES than buff life and melee. Because what I saw on my spellcasters is not what I consider a "game" at all. Or change nothing, I really don't care if ES and spells are better, as long as I can have fun in my niche. ;-) 3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
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Of course you think it's fine because you never got to higher levels where deaths are so punishing that you cannot simply continue with your melee character, all while you wouldn't have that problem as a ranged character.
That trait is shared between all you "melee is fine" dudez. " So basically you don't give a shit about balance whatsoever, thanks. Now we can all just ignore your posts instead of wasting time trying to talk about balance with someone who doesn't give a shit about it. Not that this was needed for that conclusion. All "melee is fine" guys don't care about balance, otherwise they wouldn't say that melee is fine. I get that you like playing melee, so do I, but I'm not either delusional or masochistic (or simply haven't tasted the pain of dying in high levels). | |
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...what you fail to understand is that your opinion is just an opinion, no fact, no truth, no nothing. Just an opinion.
You can wish for changes, balance or whatever as much as you want, there will always be people who disagree. Because they have different goals, different ideas, different opinions. And by no means do your claims have any more weight because you have a couple more hours /played on your main dude in standard. 3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
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