Barrage Damage with GMP

So im playing a Barrage Build and wondering why so many builds scale the damage via everything but GMP for single target. Heres my calculation and im eagerly awaiting to be proven wrong.

So Barrage has 1 (natural) and 3 additional Projectiles = 4 Projectiles
Adding GMP gives another 4 Projectiles wich is 100% MORE damage in my Book
GMP has 26% Less Damage wich makes GMP 100% - 26% = 74% MORE damage.

This is the highest damage support gem availabe imho. or is it?
Last bumped on Mar 28, 2017, 4:18:44 PM
Noone knows an answer?
I think it's only half of it and you might get longer attack time, so it's even lower effective dps.
Barrage with 2 volley fire jewels will give you the desired GMP feeling without the drawback, add a 3rd volley fire if you want to have the LMP + GMP feeling without any drawback. You retain your single target damage while being able to clear packs easly.
Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016

Last edited by JohnNamikaze on Mar 27, 2017, 5:40:06 PM
You are forgetting that the initial 4 projectiles are also affected by the 26% less modifier. So let's say 4 projectiles is 100% dps. By doubling your projectiles you have 200% dps. But you have a 26% less damage multiplier which brings the total dps back to 148%. 48% more damage basically.

This doesn't take into account the fact that firing more projectiles with Barrage will take longer which will further reduce your dps as well as your maneuvrability. So I would say no, it's not the best support for it.
Last edited by Bardharr on Mar 27, 2017, 5:44:13 PM
Barrage doesn't need GMP for single-target damage. Its ST is usually perfectly acceptable as it is; area clearing is where traditional Barrage fails.

As well, GMP is a 'Less' modifier, and in the current game 'Less' modifiers are close to the Devil. If you're poisoning (and most Barrage builds do), then that 'Less' is applied twice - to your main hit, and then to your poison degen. When other gems double-dip 'More' modifiers instead of 'Less' modifiers, they end up being much better for your overall damage when Poison is calculated in.

If you're not poisoning, or if it's 3.0.0 and double-dipping has been expunged, then GMP might well be an interesting experiment with Barrage. Barrage's attack time is the same regardless of how many projectiles it fires, I do believe, so GMP would be a hefty single-target DPS increase. That said, modern Barrage builds rely on Volley Fire to be both single-target and area clear at the same time, which might also be where GMP fails.

Slower Projectiles on Volley Fire Barrage increases the damage of both the main single-target burst and the extra clearing shots fired at the front and back of the burst. PPAD, same thing. Void Manipulation, same thing (for Chaos conversion builds, anyways). GMP? Only applies to the primary boss-killing burst, and in fact actively decreases VFB's clearing capability by decreasing the damage done by its secondary Split Arrow-style shots.

Given that it's incredibly easy to just stack 'More' modifiers on projectile attacks (Slower Proj, PPAD, and Pierce alongside all the other 'More' modifiers normally available to weapon builds), there's generally no need to sacrifice clearspeed for boss-killing damage. Just lose GMP and get both.
I assume it's mostly in part do to the way that GMP works.

The more projectiles you have before GMP, the more the damage reduction from GMP cuts into your damage.

In addition, Barrage itself has a significant damage penalty to projectiles, making the flat 4 projectiles from GMP less impactful.

Like, if my calculations are correct:

Level 20 Barrage Gem is 61% base damage and 20 GMP is -26% damage for 4 extra projectiles.

Barrage = 61% * 4 = 244% base damage.

Barrage with GMP = 45% * 8 = 360% base damage.

In comparison, a relatively weak damage booster such as Faster Projectiles (Assuming the choice is between GMP/SP as Added Fire Damage, PPAD and the like are being run already)

FP is 29% more damage.

Barrage with FP = 78% * 4 = 312% base damage.

Meaning GMP isn't all that a massive damage boost, but has the effect of reducing attack speed and also, notably, reducing the effectiveness of the Volley Fire jewel (The additional projectiles will get reduced damage. Also, you get less Volleys since it only procs on the first and last shots of the barrage and GMP = Fewer barrages but with more arrows in them)

Edit: I wanted to do more math.

Say you had something like Death's Opus for 2 extra projectiles:

Barrage = 61% * 6 = 366% base damage
Barrage with GMP = 45 * 10 = 450% base damage
Barrage with FP = 78% * 6 = 468% base damage

Further showing that more projectiles before GMP, worse off GMP is. This can then be exacerbated with Deadeye's extra projectile and the Barrage extra projectile enchant.
Last edited by Tarille on Mar 27, 2017, 6:24:41 PM
"
JohnNamikaze wrote:
Barrage with 2 volley fire jewels will give you the desired GMP feeling without the drawback, add a 3rd volley fire if you want to have the LMP + GMP feeling without any drawback. You retain your single target damage while being able to clear packs easly.


Ok but the wiki says that volley fire projectiles cant hit the same target as the main pfojectiles do. So I assumed its meant for clearing only.

In my build I use tornado shot for clearing anyways.


Tanks for the enlightenment everyone.
"
GornoDD wrote:


Ok but the wiki says that volley fire projectiles cant hit the same target as the main pfojectiles do. So I assumed its meant for clearing only.


Yea, but you would solve the clearing pack issue while maintaining the single target damage intact.
Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016

Last edited by JohnNamikaze on Mar 28, 2017, 4:49:55 AM
"
JohnNamikaze wrote:

Yea, but you would solve the clearing issue while maintaining the single target damage intact. GMP would solve the clearing issue, but messes up your single target damage.



John, have you actually used GMP with Barrage? It doesn't help clear at all... LMP/GMP don't behave on Barrage like they do with other skills. They add arrows in sequence, not in a cone like with other skills.
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