Path of Exile - Relation of Economy x Gameplay

TLDR: Remove the concept of game economics and what's left over? Does the game survive without it? Currently we have a wall-street simulator with a background ARPG.

Recently a post by Chris Wilson about banishing those who used the bug from the league stones caught my eye.

It was a whole post explaining the attitude taken towards those who abused this bug, internal changes and etc. had a phrase that amazed me: "While banning the users and those who the items were laundered to does not solve all of the economic I hope that the information in this post is reassuring. "It was not enough that the bug was bad because only if it seems that what worried him most was the fact that the items obtained could affect the economy.

I warn you that with this post, I do not expect to be welcomed by the community that almost 100% of it will disagree with me, however, it's a feedback post.
Going straight to my point of view: In my view, PoE is on the same track as Diablo 3 when it was launched with the auction house in the sense of, the player relying on items that other players make available for sale.

My view of a game is that any feature added to the game has to be made to base the game, not the other way round. Currently what I see is that the game is being supported in the trade system, to the point that a developer and producer come to the public to say that due to a bug, the fear of it is to know how much this bug affected the economy. This mode to which the game is based is making the gameplay options to the game quite limited in the matter of diversity.

Yes, it seems the post seems a bit of "mimimi" on my part, however it is a real outburst of my sense of impotence related to the game because it relies so much on the economy to the point that sometimes I find that I am playing a bag simulator Of values. I have my account created in the Path of Exile since 2013 I played a little and I went back to playing last year with a friend. In my account on Steam has posted 578 hours of game. And all those hours I was never able to complete my item build. I do not consider myself a hardcore player, in the sense of seeking the maximum mechanics of my build and passive, I just follow a build that I saw some video and I liked and game, that's how I have fun.

But what I've come to realize is that, by excluding items connected to some past league, some are extremely rare to get so that the game economy can exist. I see that once the game adopts placements to make something less common to favor a characteristic, for me this game is going the wrong way. This is making me tired of the game in a way, that I do not know how much more I will support playing or trying to create a build, or trying to play with a build, those that are limited by the drop RNG factor and depend on another player putting The item being sold so that I can actually experience that build I've been building since I started the character at level 1.

My message is: Make the game stand on its own and so the other features can support the game and do not need an economy system so that it can exist.

The post to which I referred is: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/60mc9f/followup_on_the_leaguestone_exploit/

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TheMotherFucker wrote:

But what I've come to realize is that, by excluding items connected to some past league, some are extremely rare to get so that the game economy can exist.

Lets focus on this sequence above - you're taking false assumptions. Let me try to explain:
Generally, a game with this 'setup', will always be driven by item hunting. Starting from this, its logical that some items will (and have to) be more rare than others (or even the majority).
This generic feature is one (main) aspect of keeping the community play. (where community here refers of people that are willing to invest the needed time to prepare, or perfect, 'their' build - can call them 'addicts' - instead of getting tired from waiting for the gear they need/want). Of course, this mood isnt shared by everyone, but everyone can't be pleased... ^^

Then even more: the main focus of POE lays in delivering more/new content, in shape of the challenge leagues. Participating here always excludes past (legacy) items from the whole system; the actual legacy league is a big, single exception from this 'rule'.

From how the game itself changes over time, an outdated version of a given item should never be needed to make a build 'work'; and (at least for genre-addicts) it should never need an overpowered item to make a build 'fun to play'.

tl;dr OP doesn't like trade, and thinks that PoE is turning into D3... and therefore he suggests to get rid of trade. Which D3 lacks (???).

So you are afraid that PoE is turning into D3, but you are suggesting to do exactly what happened in D3... ok.

Trade needs to be implemented into the game. And that is it. Game does great with the economy, but arguably some things are too common (namely, lowest tier of uniques). Making a build with uniques is easy nowadays - just go there and buy them.

To me, arguing that it is somehow wrong that your progress is connected to other player dropping an item is somehow wrong is like saying that you buying food in grocery story is also wrong, since you haven't made those things yourself. How is that even wrong?

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

"

TheMotherFucker wrote:

But what I've come to realize is that, by excluding items connected to some past league, some are extremely rare to get so that the game economy can exist.

Lets focus on this sequence above - you're taking false assumptions. Let me try to explain:
Generally, a game with this 'setup', will always be driven by item hunting. Starting from this, its logical that some items will (and have to) be more rare than others (or even the majority).
This generic feature is one (main) aspect of keeping the community play. (where community here refers of people that are willing to invest the needed time to prepare, or perfect, 'their' build - can call them 'addicts' - instead of getting tired from waiting for the gear they need/want). Of course, this mood isnt shared by everyone, but everyone can't be pleased... ^^

Then even more: the main focus of POE lays in delivering more/new content, in shape of the challenge leagues. Participating here always excludes past (legacy) items from the whole system; the actual legacy league is a big, single exception from this 'rule'.

From how the game itself changes over time, an outdated version of a given item should never be needed to make a build 'work'; and (at least for genre-addicts) it should never need an overpowered item to make a build 'fun to play'.

I'm not saying that it takes the back legacy items, I'm saying that making a game depend on the economy to survive is bad. When in fact it is the economy that should depend on the game.

That would be the ideal scenario that no player needs to depend on the other player to sell an X item to advance the game, because simply playing more than 500 hours and not being able to finish their build gear is ridiculous.

"

Perq wrote:

tl;dr OP doesn't like trade, and thinks that PoE is turning into D3... and therefore he suggests to get rid of trade. Which D3 lacks (???).

So you are afraid that PoE is turning into D3, but you are suggesting to do exactly what happened in D3... ok.

Trade needs to be implemented into the game. And that is it. Game does great with the economy, but arguably some things are too common (namely, lowest tier of uniques). Making a build with uniques is easy nowadays - just go there and buy them.

To me, arguing that it is somehow wrong that your progress is connected to other player dropping an item is somehow wrong is like saying that you buying food in grocery story is also wrong, since you haven't made those things yourself. How is that even wrong?

I'm not saying he's becoming the D3, he's like the D3.

I also do not say to withdraw the trade system, I just asked them to analyze the whole situation and build game mechanics that did not depend entirely on the trade system. Existing it's OK, it's a plus to the game, but relying on a whole game of it is ridiculous.

With that the game to exist now, for what I saw here depends on: a totally exclusive RNG and a trade system for people to be satisfied in selling the players for the game currency that at the end of the day is not worth anything out of the game.

No player needs to rely on another already, ask Anuhart. Need more proof ? Theres something called "budget building" which is completely busted in power/price/performance in comparison to builds that gear as good as they possibly can within reason for that time.

1c Poison/Ignite builds do more than my 20+ exalt 2H builds and have substantially better survivability. Youre talking about "fair" but from my point of view what isnt fair is me actually investing time into build build and gear while some guy finds a 1c unique and blows my build out of the water.

There are plenty of those kinds of budget builds shitting all over well geared builds too, this isnt something new and they have yet to address it. Frankly people who spend alot of currency should be alot more upset than those who spend nothing and still have better builds.

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TheMotherFucker wrote:

I'm not saying that it takes the back legacy items, I'm saying that making a game depend on the economy to survive is bad. When in fact it is the economy that should depend on the game.

Simply: where does the economy come from? A game like this, with an ongoing development, needs to keep players 'busy'. And the majority of the players base need/want always a 'fresh' carot, another carot, a new carot and a better carot ^^ These 'demand' alone drives the economy - and all GGG does is to (try to) control the economical relations (as far/good as {they think} its possible)

"

TheMotherFucker wrote:

That would be the ideal scenario that no player needs to depend on the other player to sell an X item to advance the game, because simply playing more than 500 hours and not being able to finish their build gear is ridiculous.

Wrong expectations. If you select a build which is based on very specific/expensive/rare or even legacy items: your 'fault'. Some builds are obviously more difficult to play, some more difficult to gear/make work than others, some are weaker but do work anyway...

Cheap example: I've played since end of 2011, nearly constantly - so I assume a playtime from multiple thousand hours, and still have neither own a mirror nor even see one drop 'live' - so what? One day it will (probably) happen, and if not within the next 10 years, then it may end up meaningless... so what again. ^^ I've "missed" an Eternal - bad for my "collection", beside this - so what once more.

TLDR: its really not "the game" that depend on the economy - its just the player(s) who think they are dependend on whatever they dont own.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

"

TheMotherFucker wrote:

I'm not saying that it takes the back legacy items, I'm saying that making a game depend on the economy to survive is bad. When in fact it is the economy that should depend on the game.

Simply: where does the economy come from? A game like this, with an ongoing development, needs to keep players 'busy'. And the majority of the players base need/want always a 'fresh' carot, another carot, a new carot and a better carot ^^ These 'demand' alone drives the economy - and all GGG does is to (try to) control the economical relations (as far/good as {they think} its possible)

"

TheMotherFucker wrote:

That would be the ideal scenario that no player needs to depend on the other player to sell an X item to advance the game, because simply playing more than 500 hours and not being able to finish their build gear is ridiculous.

Wrong expectations. If you select a build which is based on very specific/expensive/rare or even legacy items: your 'fault'. Some builds are obviously more difficult to play, some more difficult to gear/make work than others, some are weaker but do work anyway...

Cheap example: I've played since end of 2011, nearly constantly - so I assume a playtime from multiple thousand hours, and still have neither own a mirror nor even see one drop 'live' - so what? One day it will (probably) happen, and if not within the next 10 years, then it may end up meaningless... so what again. ^^ I've "missed" an Eternal - bad for my "collection", beside this - so what once more.

TLDR: its really not "the game" that depend on the economy - its just the player(s) who think they are dependend on whatever they dont own.

Really? If GGG announced tomorrow that it will not allow more trades, would the game survive? Since the mere fact of touching on the subject of not making the game dependent on it, already results in annoying to many people.

Sadly....

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Chris wrote:

Path of Exile’s economy is the most important element of the game to us.

This has been the case for at least 6 years.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Sadly....

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Chris wrote:

Path of Exile’s economy is the most important element of the game to us.

This has been the case for at least 6 years.

That's what I keep saying: Without it the game is nothing.

And it should not be like this.