Disgusting Porcupine Goliath

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Lesthiria wrote:

got about 4500 unbuffed evasion. but like dodge, its a hit or miss game.

Ehhhh, no. It's been long established that Evasion is periodic for series of hits, not pseudorandom. You can google for the Mark_GGG explanation, or you could ask me to dig it up for you. If you want the detailed mechanics breakdown with no source backup, I can explain it as well.

I personally have had zero problems with these guys on my Evasion+Dodge characters as well, but it could be because I set my standards low, so my usual Mapping tiers are around T6-T12. I don't exactly sustain T16s, so my experience is limited there. (But 5000 Life with zero mitigation in T16 sounds like a suicide mission, anyways. I would assume you want Enfeeble, Fortify, Arctic Armour, Lightning Coil, 100% Basalt Flask uptime, or something like that if you're sustaining T16s. Additionally, 4500 unbuffed Evasion sounds quite low for sustaining T16s on an Eva/Dodge build.)

Of note is that 3000 Armour (if you have a perfect roll Granite Flask of Iron Skin + Acrobatics) grants +30% to Armour's EHP contribution against Physical Hits, which for an Eva/Dodge build will generally mean 30% more EHP against phys hits of size 1,000. So where you would have died against 5 hits, you could instead survive 5000 * 1.3 = 1 and a half more hits before dying, with a Granite of Iron Skin up.

Well my good sir. I am not complaining about the difficulty of the game tbh. I havent tried tier 16 yet which i dont think I can do that yet but tier 15 is nothing to me. I have no problem with the bosses and monsters from tier 15 and below. Its the spike (literally spikes) damage from those turkeys thats killing me. No warning and no means to avoid it effectively. Yes evasion is pseudorandom but unless i stand there without taking any fire for 10 seconds I dont think evasion is going to save me much. Besides, who the hell stacks evasion. Global defenses except ES are worthless stats. Requires too much resources to make it noticeable.

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Lesthiria wrote:

Well my good sir. I am not complaining about the difficulty of the game tbh. I havent tried tier 16 yet which i dont think I can do that yet but tier 15 is nothing to me. I have no problem with the bosses and monsters from tier 15 and below. Its the spike (literally spikes) damage from those turkeys thats killing me. No warning and no means to avoid it effectively. Yes evasion is pseudorandom but unless i stand there without taking any fire for 10 seconds I dont think evasion is going to save me much. Besides, who the hell stacks evasion. Global defenses except ES are worthless stats. Requires too much resources to make it noticeable.

I have no fucking idea what I just typed there Im kinda bit drunk but you get the gist (maybe not?)

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Lesthiria wrote:

got about 4500 unbuffed evasion. but like dodge,

Which isnt much with 5k life only.

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Lesthiria wrote:

And as far as I know Immortal Call doesnt do shit against multiple spikes flying toward your face at the same time.

Not much personal experience with it but it supposedly works. I am unaware of the "snapshotting bug" affecting projectiles. You got a source for that?

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Lesthiria wrote:

I did test it out myself, and no it did nothing to save my ass from the wrath of the turkeys.

You can still get killed during IC cooldown. You need to keep tabs on that or you die as without the cwdt-IC-ID. Although less often. So its not a "drunk safe" solution. It also doesnt work against the elemental damage from "elemental damage added" map mod.

I have 7.7k armor i think and if i killed 2-4 at once it will rip me if they all hit thats how hard they hit lol

I find if you pop x3 armor flasks right before you kill and hit a life flask your ok... but what are the chances people use x3 (or even one) armor flask

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morbo wrote:

There is one more thing you can do in your situation, against porcupines: kill them slower. Not a joke. That is actually what you have to do in higher maps with vulnerability & extra damage, even on tanky characters. Don't pop the whole pack at once.

In other words : think a bit more before destroying everything.

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suszterpatt wrote:

Even so, being close virtually guarantees that you will be hit by a spike, whereas if you kill them from the edge of the screen, the spread will cause many of them to miss you entirely.

Not completely sure about the why, but I have jumped many times into a pack of porcupines ( in the middle, you could not be more melee ), and killed most of them in a second and ...... 0 damage taken from spikes.
if I would wait so that they spread a bit a kill them = there would be quiiite a bit of damage taken.

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adghar wrote:

Of note is that 3000 Armour (if you have a perfect roll Granite Flask of Iron Skin + Acrobatics) grants +30% to Armour's EHP contribution against Physical Hits, which for an Eva/Dodge build will generally mean 30% more EHP against phys hits of size 1,000. So where you would have died against 5 hits, you could instead survive 5000 * 1.3 = 1 and a half more hits before dying, with a Granite of Iron Skin up.

Acrobatics gives 50% armour effectivness.
And many things can impact the damage of the spike too.

I noted it with Blade Vortex which was basically the ultimate nogo for those kind of enemies (because they are dead when the spikes fly, so no leech) and they really do seem to deal lower damage, because the character had neither high physical resistance nor evasion, just the Physical Mitigation from a Basalt which is avaible to any character.

Also Evasion works pretty well on them, they are hardly fatal and reducing the amounts of spikes that hit from a pack is much more reliable than removing the damage from each single one. A normal evasion character evades every other spike, so if a pack of 10 porcupines die an evasion character will reliably avoid 5 of those spikes and it is likely he will dodge another one. So that and the Basalt Flask means he only takes 32% of the damage, iE he has 68% damage reduction. Only heavy armored characters with maxed endurance charges can top that.

And yeah Immortal Call will basically turn them into completly meaningless nonsense. Because they hardly ever hit at the same time (they cannot, because this would mean that all porcupines are the same distance away from the player which is technically possible if they circle him but never the case). If Immortal Call procs before the projectiles connect the damage is negated, this is one of the situations a cwdt immortal call really shines. That and bleeds (because immortal call is physical resistance and works on dots, so you have a short time to take a flask without taking bleeding damage).

Thought I'd mention the friendly neighborhood jade flask of reflexes.



Wolf

I remember one time I opened a strongbox on a map with these guys. All three strongbox packs were porcupines. I was playing a proliferation build. And there was a dead burning mob near the edge of where they spawned in.

Not even 10K energy shield, a basalt flask, and CWDT-Immortal Call could save me from that one.

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Lesthiria wrote:

Well my good sir. I am not complaining about the difficulty of the game tbh. I havent tried tier 16 yet which i dont think I can do that yet but tier 15 is nothing to me. I have no problem with the bosses and monsters from tier 15 and below. Its the spike (literally spikes) damage from those turkeys thats killing me. No warning and no means to avoid it effectively. Yes evasion is pseudorandom but unless i stand there without taking any fire for 10 seconds I dont think evasion is going to save me much. Besides, who the hell stacks evasion. Global defenses except ES are worthless stats. Requires too much resources to make it noticeable.

well if you had stacked evasion on your evasion build you would have survived. So worthless stat...?

4.5k evasion, basically you have next to no evasion on your evasion build, which would explain why you died to something that evasion builds are probably the best possible defense in the game for dealing with.

I have over 12k evasion even on my armour builds, and they murder entire screens of porcupines in triple damage mod maps and take 0 noticeable damage. Dodge is truly random, at the point your relying on 40% dodge to save you as your main layer of defense youre a dead man walking.