Don't Put New Legacy League Zana Crafts In Permanent Leagues 2.6.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Chris wrote:

The plan varies from mechanic to mechanic. Legacy isn't meant to say goodbye to them, but provides a great opportunity to play with a lot of craziness happening simultaneously. The Zana changes are because we can't run regular Zana mods at the same time as Leaguestones, and to provide an alternate experience for people to make their maps more difficult and rewarding. We haven't decided about the role of Leaguestones in the future of Path of Exile.

So, why not answer this...

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Why did you pull that Zana trick with permanent leagues in 2.6?

Easier to just not answer than to say 'we did it to fuck over permanent league players'?

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goetzjam wrote:

Who fucking cares at this point they aren't going to change it and for one standard can help give feedback about something as well.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Why did you pull that Zana trick with permanent leagues in 2.6?

Easier to just not answer than to say 'we did it to fuck over permanent league players'?

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ghoulavenger wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Who fucking cares at this point they aren't going to change it and for one standard can help give feedback about something as well.

They have a legitimate complaint, so let them complain. Unless you're adding an argument against their complaint you're basically just bumping the thread.

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Emphasy wrote:

While the complaint is legitimate, the fact that it isn't worth it for them to adjust Zana just for this one league is as well. Because Zana mods are global so they had to decide to either make them useless for the temp. league or mess up the perm. league and guess where their priority lies.

Of course they could have changed the entire system and created seperate zana mods for each league just because those mods don't make sense for the current league, because it would be a solution that essentially is obsolete in a few months.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

OK, this 'Zana = core game and can't have different mods to temp leagues' has been used a lot in these many threads. I wasn't sure so I didn't say, but I thought I could remember a time when permanent and temp Zana's were different.

And now I have been able to prove it.

From the Wiki, Torment League:

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The league started along with the Bloodlines league on December 13, 2014 and ended on March 24, 2015 (NZ time). At the end of the league, all characters and stashes were moved to Standard league. Characters that died respawned in Torment.

Torment dropped Scold's Bridle.
Bloodlines did not.

Standard, Permanent HC and Bloodlines had Torment Zana for 3 ex.

Standard, Permanent HC and Torment had Bloodlines Zana for 3 ex.

Bloodlines didn't have Bloodlines Zana.

Torment didn't have Torment Zana.

Here's Skyforth chancing Scold's Bridle in Standard from a 3 ex Torment Zana, which wasn't available in Torment, because it didn't need it. The date of the upload is March 10th 2015, 2 weeks before Torment ended.

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Emphasy wrote:

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ghoulavenger wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Who fucking cares at this point they aren't going to change it and for one standard can help give feedback about something as well.

They have a legitimate complaint, so let them complain. Unless you're adding an argument against their complaint you're basically just bumping the thread.

While the complaint is legitimate, the fact that it isn't worth it for them to adjust Zana just for this one league is as well. Because Zana mods are global so they had to decide to either make them useless for the temp. league or mess up the perm. league and guess where their priority lies.

Of course they could have changed the entire system and created seperate zana mods for each league just because those mods don't make sense for the current league, because it would be a solution that essentially is obsolete in a few months.

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ghoulavenger wrote:

Even if you're right, which TheAnuhart has openly challenged, that doesn't change the nature of the argument presented. Zana mods were changed in standard because of leaguestones in Legacy. Leaguestones aren't in standard, so Zana mods in standard were changed for nothing. Even if you take Goetzjam's comment that standard can give feedback on the new mods, I'd say that everybody here is already doing that. They want the old mods, *not* the new ones.

If you want my opinion on the new mods though they're only so/so. My major complaint is that really the only unique mods it offers are area is inhabited by spiders, bandits and blackguards. There are similar map mods, like humanoids. All other mods can be rolled on maps already so you're basically paying extra chaos for a little bit of extra quantity which you can get for free from using the map device anyway. When you compare that to old Zana mods giving you league modifiers they're sorely lacking, since that was the only way you could *get* league modifiers. In short, I think Zana needs mods that are unique to compare to the old Zana, although not necessarily to other masters.

That being said, I do think monster life can be useful, assuming that monster life gives extra experience (which I think it does). Having exiles, beyond, and twinned at the ready actually saves people on rolling maps as well. So it isn't totally without merit.

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goetzjam wrote:

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ghoulavenger wrote:

Even if you're right, which TheAnuhart has openly challenged, that doesn't change the nature of the argument presented. Zana mods were changed in standard because of leaguestones in Legacy. Leaguestones aren't in standard, so Zana mods in standard were changed for nothing. Even if you take Goetzjam's comment that standard can give feedback on the new mods, I'd say that everybody here is already doing that. They want the old mods, *not* the new ones.

If you want my opinion on the new mods though they're only so/so. My major complaint is that really the only unique mods it offers are area is inhabited by spiders, bandits and blackguards. There are similar map mods, like humanoids. All other mods can be rolled on maps already so you're basically paying extra chaos for a little bit of extra quantity which you can get for free from using the map device anyway. When you compare that to old Zana mods giving you league modifiers they're sorely lacking, since that was the only way you could *get* league modifiers. In short, I think Zana needs mods that are unique to compare to the old Zana, although not necessarily to other masters.

That being said, I do think monster life can be useful, assuming that monster life gives extra experience (which I think it does). Having exiles, beyond, and twinned at the ready actually saves people on rolling maps as well. So it isn't totally without merit.

They wanted the old mods before they even played the new mods. Play the new mods, tell us why you don't like them or like them, then perhaps GGG can get the necessary feedback to make a better plan in the future.

I think people forget that standard is a reflection of the core game, the core game has had its zana mods changed because of legacy league, there is no disputing that, what people might not realize is that perhaps GGG doesn't have a system in place to have a SEPARATE set of zana mods for standard, then they do for the temp leagues and by doing work to create that, they would be taking away from dev time for 3.0

Now you can say, well why not add the leaguestones into standard then, GGG has NEVER added a league mechanic into standard that wasn't first tested in a league (of course), where would GGG stop, just add in the leaguestone mechanic, but not ancient keys? Who know how much additional work that would take, who knows if people would have the incentive to play in the new league, if the mechanic was available in perm leagues. GGG needs to keep a portion of the temp league players busy while they work on 3.0 and open up the beta around the end of next month. Anything that creates additional work not related to 3.0 needs to be basically considered non-essential.

I think someone pointed out a zana mod that was 3ex or 2ex or something where they did allow you to play a league mechanic in standard, that was at a pretty significant cost.