I had an argument with a feminist... My boss.

"

Budget_player_cadet wrote:

The tragic part here is twofold: I can't tell if this is satire, and if it isn't, it's still probably not the most shitty, misogynistic thing in this thread.

Let there be triggering! lol

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

The tragic part here is twofold: I can't tell if this is satire, and if it isn't, it's still probably not the most shitty, misogynistic thing in this thread.

Let there be triggering! lol

You guys take sol way to serious, a clear sign of OT turning to shit.

We need OT guidelines somewhere.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Budget_player_cadet wrote:

It's trivial to pick out male playable characters who are overweight, malformed, misshapen, fat, ugly, ... In fact, they're explicitly ugly motherfuckers as a part of their character. Marcus Phoenix is built like a beef shithouse, sure, but do you want to tell me that guy is attractive? Hell, just look at Path of Exile! Marauder is just ugly, and Templar ain't exactly handsome either, while all three playable female characters are clearly conventionally attractive characters - the worst you could say about any of them is that the witch is a little pale, and the ranger has a shitty

Again, you do not understand enough about biology and rationalize too much with your "social engineering" rulesets.

Men do not need to be beautiful to attract women. Women are attracted even to badass, ugly guys, bald muscular mountains, scarred thugs, or even fat lardballs, as long as those men have "social capital". Women are even attracted to criminals and thugs, I wonder why.

OTOH, females DO need to be attractive, at least in the biological (fertile) sense. No one would be interested in playing a fat and ugly female protagonist in a game. Female & male ugliness are not interchangable. Male ugliness = badass thug that has been involved in many bar fights in his life. Female ugliness = uh... crack whore?

Women are attracted to thugs, guy gamers want to be thugs. Guys are not attracted to crack whores, women gamers do not want to be ugly. That's why ugly men work in games and ugly women do not.

But of course you sad feminists, seeking to be offended by everything, have to see the world through negative lenses. Instead of saying that females in PoE are better than male classes, since they can obviously take care of their beauty and keep their fit bodies, you complain there are not enough fatties in video games... doh! talking about lowering the bar of societal expectations.

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morbo wrote:

Again, you do not understand enough about biology and rationalize too much with your "social engineering" rulesets.

Men do not need to be beautiful to attract women. Women are attracted even to badass, ugly guys, bald muscular mountains, scarred thugs, or even fat lardballs, as long as those men have "social capital". Women are even attracted to criminals and thugs, I wonder why.

Have you seen the people I named? Seriously, this is Travis.



This is either Kayne or Lynch, cbf to figure out which.



These are not attractive people. They are, for all intents and purposes, really fucking ugly. Not just "average". Actively ugly. Or should I have to explain that fucking Wario is not attractive? Wario, who is like three feet tall, bulgy, and whose go-to attacks are farts?

"

OTOH, females DO need to be attractive, at least in the biological (fertile) sense. No one would be interested in playing a fat and ugly female protagonist in a game.

Not that we've ever been given the chance. Well, I mean, in Loadout it was pretty hilarious at least.

"

Female & male ugliness are not interchangable. Male ugliness = badass thug that has been involved in many bar fights in his life. Female ugliness = uh... crack whore?

Trust me, I know plenty of women I'm sure you'd consider "ugly". Either because they're old, or overweight, or just don't have particularly appealing facial features. But isn't it interesting that the way we perceive beauty, it doesn't matter if a guy is ugly, but it does matter if a woman is?

(That's sort of the point.)

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

These are not attractive people. They are, for all intents and purposes, really fucking ugly.

That's what I'm trying to explain: for male characters, beauty and attractiveness are completely irrelevant traits. For females they are relevant.

If you guys are so triggered, you should start modding and "fix" fantasy worlds to your norms and expectations.

And how many guys do you know that are as beefed up as the Marauder? Why aren't you complaining about the "impossible masculine Karui standards" that Mara is designed around. GGG put a beer belly on him, nao! :P

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morbo wrote:

That's what I'm trying to explain: for male characters, beauty and attractiveness are completely irrelevant traits. For females they are relevant.

What a bizarre statement.

"

And how many guys do you know that are as beefed up as the Marauder? Why aren't you complaining about the "impossible masculine Karui standards" that Mara is designed around. GGG put a beer belly on him, nao! :P

Do you understand the difference between an objectifying sexual fantasy and a self-empowerment fantasy?

Relevant to current discussion
(specifically Claim 3):
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bAJYmrKR8WE&t=5m55s

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Relevant to current discussion
(specifically Claim 3):
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bAJYmrKR8WE&t=5m55s

Bit of a chicken-egg problem, really, when you consider things like that you have to fight hard to even have a female lead in your game. Is it really because women are just fundamentally not interested in games driven by competitive or a strong narrative? Or is it because those games do nothing to market themselves to a female audiences and generally get less marketing in general? I don't know. I'd be interested in seeing the data Sargon uses to back that point up, because he certainly didn't present it in his video.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Relevant to current discussion
(specifically Claim 3):
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bAJYmrKR8WE&t=5m55s

Bit of a chicken-egg problem, really, when you consider things like that you have to fight hard to even have a female lead in your game. Is it really because women are just fundamentally not interested in games driven by competitive or a strong narrative? Or is it because those games do nothing to market themselves to a female audiences and generally get less marketing in general? I don't know. I'd be interested in seeing the data Sargon uses to back that point up, because he certainly didn't present it in his video.

Pretty sure it's in the video description. Video is old, btw.

45% of game-players are women, according to the video. That's not indicative of a massive failure to connect as far as bodies go. What I think would be more interesting would be a dollar comparison; I suspect women spend less on games than men do, but I could be assuming incorrectly.

Still, I agree mostly with Sargon on this. I view the gaming industry a lot like the clothing industry as far as gender goes; with a few notable exceptions, clothes are men's clothes or women's clothes. (The same is obviously true with movies and television, to some extent.) It's a bit silly to project a feminist narrative into men's clothing; in the same way, feminism has very little place, if any, in "gamer" culture (meaning male-dominated genres of games).

To the extent feminism does have a place, it should be a decidedly men's perspective of such... for example, maybe you play this silent masked space badass through all kinds of suspenseful exploration and explosive combat, real action movie stuff, only to find out at the very end that "you" are actually a woman.