New attribute "Effective HP" in character screen

An effective hp stat would be pointless, there are too many things to take into account when it comes to your defenses to cover in this one stat. How would it take dodge and evasion into account? They help keep you alive by taking less hits but don't help at all when actually taking a hit. I can see people already being like "I got one shot even though my ehp was x, the game isn't balanced" while completely ignoring their actual hp.

Impossible since many forms of EHP depend on quantity of hit like phys dam

Many depend on character of hit (phys, elemental, chaos DOT etc).

Not to mention something like EV, spell dodge, block etc which is EHP but zero or infiniity

All u need to know is stack ES and leech. GG EHP

Thanks for your feedback!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you really think about it. It is not that difficult. Xeledon2132 showed you how to even take spell block into account. The same you can do with evasion and all the other stuff. In the link from my discription:
https://fiddle.jshell.net/dsgqe8rr/embedded/result/

there is the entry "Effective HP with Avoidance". So calculation is not really an issue.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And another thing I want to point out. The EHP is not something that should be static ingame. It is something that gets recalculated depending on your "last" received damage (look at the section "Ingame calculation").
- If you do a map with a vulnerability mod and you recieve physical damage then you will have a lower EHP for physicial damage in this map.
- If you are fighting a huge boss which almost ignores your armour physical damage reduction then it will lower your value.
- If you forget to get endurance charges (e.g. Enduring Cry) then it will lower your value
etc.

Recalculation might even be the wrong word in this matter. The value of damage reduction of any damage type is something that already exist in the game. There is no additional calculation needed (except the mean value thing). Any time a player gets hit POE know how much HP loss happens.

Monster damage --> Damage reduction --> HP loss

And if POE does know that then POE knows your EHP as well. It just needed to be displayed in character screen.
The damage recution part is something that players like Xeledon2132 know and understand completely but other do not especially new players.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For further disscussion we should disable the thoughts that EHP is too difficult to calculate. As discribed above POE calculates the received damage anyway.

As other said, it's basically impossible to get any meaningfull EHP displayed value, there are way too many variables to take into account, some monsters are immune to your curses, the bosses are resistant to it, I think that some monsters have some elemental penetrations, you might get cursed and the curses vaules depends on the level ( level of the monster too ? ), Nullifier mobs can instantly remove the charges, and then there are also flasks to take into account, etc .....

As for physical hits, the damage isn't constant, there are RNG rolls for every of them, there is crit to take into account, etc ....
GGG does not want us to have a combat log to start with, so EHP information ? No way.


The only thing that it would do anyway is confuse player even more imho, having the exact opposite effect of what you want to do.

"

Fruz wrote:

As other said, it's basically impossible to get any meaningfull EHP displayed value, there are way too many variables to take into account, some monsters are immune to your curses, the bosses are resistant to it, I think that some monsters have some elemental penetrations, you might get cursed and the curses vaules depends on the level ( level of the monster too ? ), Nullifier mobs can instantly remove the charges, and then there are also flasks to take into account, etc .....

As for physical hits, the damage isn't constant, there are RNG rolls for every of them, there is crit to take into account, etc ....
GGG does not want us to have a combat log to start with, so EHP information ? No way.

The only thing that it would do anyway is confuse player even more imho, having the exact opposite effect of what you want to do.

Dodge, evasion, block, and the like can just be added as a second stat - EHP with secondary mitigation or just don't include it.

The rest of the stuff is actually not that hard to calculate - removing charges, well your EHP stat would drop with each removed charge obviously. Phys hits, they would just use the largest phys hit that one-shots your character, as that would be the upper end of your effective HP.

If you take some time to think about it, it's really not that bad once you remove evade dodge and block.

I understand that changes might confuse someone but relying on the 'estimated physical damage reduction' which ignors parts like items or map effects is definitely not the right way (see section "The idea" of the description as well).

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Dodge, evasion, block, and the like can just be added as a second stat - EHP with secondary mitigation or just don't include it.

The rest of the stuff is actually not that hard to calculate - removing charges, well your EHP stat would drop with each removed charge obviously. Phys hits, they would just use the largest phys hit that one-shots your character, as that would be the upper end of your effective HP.

If you take some time to think about it, it's really not that bad once you remove evade dodge and block.

Thx for your contribution. Here we got an really interesting point to discuss about. Currently it looks like:

- EHP chaos
- EHP fire
- EHP cold
- EHP lightning
- EHP physical

Would you change it to something like:

_________________primary mitigation_|_secondary mitigation
- EHP chaos____________7.8k_______|_________11.1k__________
- EHP fire_____________31.3k_______|_________44.7k__________
- EHP cold____________31.3k_______|_________44.7k__________
- EHP lightning_________31.3k_______|_________44.7k__________
- EHP physical_________12.4k_______|_________15.5k__________

Primary mitigation = everything except secondary mitigation
Secondary mitigation = primary mitigation + dodge, evasion, block

Would you say that the "Secondary mitigation" values are less valuable from defender perspective because one shot is the main critical damage?

Then lets do one EHP physical (one shot) calculation:
Let's say you got 5000 life, 3 endurance charges + basalt flask + 10k armour
EHP becomes: 7352,9 HP ( 5000/( (1-(0.12+0.2) ) )

To get one shot you need about 8700 physical damage. The value for armour physical damage reduction is: 10.3 % ( 10000/(10000+10*8700) )
EHP becomes: 8666.9 HP ( 5000/( (1-(0.12+0.2+0.103) ) )

Legatus1982 is that how you ment to calculate the EHP value for physical damage? If there is someone who is fimiliar with the calucation can check it pls.

From my personal perspective I just thought to make the EHP calculation for every hit like:

1. Hit (2500 dmg): 12681.2 HP ( 5000/( (1-(0.12+0.2+ ( 10000/(10000+10*2500) ) ) ) )
2. Hit: (3000 dmg): 11627.9 HP ( 5000/( (1-(0.12+0.2+ ( 10000/(10000+10*3000) ) ) ) )
3. Hit: (8000 dmg): 8789.1 HP ( 5000/( (1-(0.12+0.2+ ( 10000/(10000+10*8000) ) ) ) )

The displayed value would be the mean value of the last 3 hits (or e.g last 5s):

EHP physical: 11032.7 HP

Please discuss

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Dodge, evasion, block, and the like can just be added as a second stat - EHP with secondary mitigation or just don't include it.

The rest of the stuff is actually not that hard to calculate - removing charges, well your EHP stat would drop with each removed charge obviously. Phys hits, they would just use the largest phys hit that one-shots your character, as that would be the upper end of your effective HP.

If you take some time to think about it, it's really not that bad once you remove evade dodge and block.

So you mean a stat that keeps varying like a lot according to whatever happens to you in real time, and need to take the highest potential damage of the most dangerous monster in an area around you to calculate it ?
And what about the crit possibility then ? Show the stat for the worst case scenario ?

That will definitely be confusing.

"

Fruz wrote:

So you mean a stat that keeps varying like a lot according to whatever happens to you in real time, and need to take the highest potential damage of the most dangerous monster in an area around you to calculate it ?
And what about the crit possibility then ? Show the stat for the worst case scenario ?

That will definitely be confusing.

When it comes to one-shot dmg you do not need to take any mobs or crit modifier into account. Look at my calculation first pls. The EHP defines how much damage is necessary to one shot you.

As well look at the section "the idea". I added there some stuff to display how the current defender feedback works and what is negativ about that.

up

I love when someone has a bad idea but they just won't stop even after everyone keeps telling them it sucks.