Remove xp loss on death, replace with xp bonuses for surviving
" pretty much |
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In a business where player retention is the key to success, punishing players just doesn't make sense. This is not a debate about casual vs hardcore. It's an obsolete sentiment from the good old days, disagree however much you want but it's pretty much fact.
I think Diablo 3 did it well, with their enhanced XP bubbles that reward you for staying alive. It feels bad when you die, but it's not the end of the world. Just as it should be. Keep your players playing, keep their spirits up and encourage progress. PoE pretty much does everything the other way. I've died a couple of times at level 95 and each time I just stop playing, sometimes for extended periods of time. It's so demoralizing it's not even funny, particularly when I die due to reasons outside of my control (network, server crash and such). Last time I whirled (Cyclone) into a volatile rare in a Gorge map and died instantly. That was fun, I learned a lot. The time before that I disconnected upon entering the Phantasmagoria boss room and the fat girl killed me while I was restarting the client. Gee, thanks. Those two bullshit deaths cost me like 50-60 maps worth of XP. It might also be prudent to investigate if temp leagues should have a harsher penalty because that's where the actual racing is done. I see no reason to keep the penalty in Standard, though. That just pisses off the players, for no reason. I do see a point in keeping it where ladder races are a thing, though. I could see a reverse slider on the ladder position. The higher up you are, the more XP you lose if you die. If you're below a certain threshold (5000?) you have no penalty. Makes sense to me. And if you really enjoy thrill and punishment, of course you play Hardcore. There should be no debate about that. | |
"> We all love those acting all hard about death penalty but play softcore :P J/k. I agree with your post. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
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" Yeah. ;) Just for the record: I play exclusively softcore nowadays. | |
" Well said, well said, I agree with all the stated points, as I dropped from 60% on the bar post level 96 to 0% due to the "technical improvements" post 2.5.2 and my stuborness to try a harsh map with dual Abaxoth with huge FPS drops, lost more than 150 maps progress in a couple of minutes, and that is demoralising up to a point where you wouldn't even want to start the game without abusing all the opie-op broken skills/items/mechanics and interactions... There wouldn't be a problem with a removal/severe reduction of death penalty on Softcore as you already have EXP penalty that dumbs you while running circles on Shaped Dunes/Strands and Gorges, that might encourage pursuing higher tier content more even if only for diversity... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...
Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... |
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Wanted to add a theoretical way it could be implemented.
I haven't crunched the numbers so this is just a random guesstimation. Total experience required for leveling increased by 100%(and even more for the higher levels). You gain a stacking bonus to experience gained capping out at 100% increased rate for not having died, duration of survival could be set for whatever but for example for not having died for a whole level of experience gained to reach max bonus. On death lose 50% of that bonus(either as additively or multiplicatively calculated). That means glass cannon builds that die cannot compete ladder, which is the main thing death penalty protects, and that people suffer a greatly slowed xp gain rate when they die so they don't want to. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster on Feb 11, 2017, 1:24:14 PM
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" Ah, but then you would have to take an active state concerning balance and that might not do it at all... Your proposed variant still retains the set 10% loss or not? I proposed a gradual increase in death EXP penalty that for the first 5 levels is 1% l, for the next 5 should be 5%, for the next 5 should increase to 10%, and the last should reach a 20% culminated with even a loss in level... They should also add a reset cap of 10/25% of the EXP gained on the road to next level. That way they would discourage zerging your way and make you pay attention for a change to how you play and build your character... Add the removal of EXP penalty for post tier 15 maps when you reached 95 - heck, add a substantial boost too - and you might convince even the casuals that pursue level 100 to try the end game... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... Last edited by sofocle10000 on Feb 11, 2017, 1:37:50 PM
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" Exactly. There's good reason these particular maps are picked. Of course due to efficiency, but I would dare say mostly because they're very safe - which in hardcore is obviously very important, but also when racing ladders. One single death post-95 in softcore and you've basically lost the race if it's competitive enough. Which I have no problem with, mind you. I'm all for racing, but let's not make everything competitive. Standard (and permanent Hardcore) has nothing to do with being competitive, but everything to do about player retention. And of course, there's the other aspect that you state. Because the penalties are so high, noone bothers to run the higher tier content & bosses unless they either: a) don't care about XP, e.g. reached their set plateau and don't care about ladders, or, more commonly I think: b) have just gained a level so they have nothing to lose. I would really like to hear a game designer explaining how that is good design. I may be stupid, but I just don't get it. I feel encouraged to grind yellow maps slowly and not partake in the high end content. I'm rewarded for playing safe and punished for pushing my boundaries. And somehow I'm apparently doing this because it makes me play more and makes me more motivated to keep doing it. I mean, really? | |
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I dont mind the penalty but i wished it would be a percantage of your current. Especially at higher levels i dont do high tier maps with rewarding but dangerous mods or guardians because of the risk of dying. This keeps me from doing any of that content for the entire level.
Make it so you lose 10% of your current xp. That way if you die at 20% you only lose 2% but at 90 you loose 9%. Especially at high lvl 95+ it feels so bad if i die when i finally reached 10% just to realize everything i did is gone. If i die at 50% the feeling is way different when i go back to 40%. | |
" You could have tried to get better too. Just saying ... " And now the rant @StreamersUseUnfairWays. *sigh* .... git gud, stop blaming others and start blaming yourself, if you don't want to do the effort of dying less or getting better at the game .... the game will remind you that you are doing something wrong. " You calling something a fact ... does not just make it a fact. It's a quite obvious design to get players out of their comfort zone and put incentive to not dying, and that is very important. Now the risk/reward ratio of high maps is pretty much another debate. " Calling BS on this. Have you every actually followed what was going on with the ladder ? This league Etup ripped at level 93, and then rushed and almost hit #1. Couple of leagues ago ( which one I dont remember ), Ziz ripped like 2 or three times post 90 .... and he was the first to hit level 100. ( HC there of course ). SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz on Feb 12, 2017, 2:07:58 AM
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