Where are the community manifesto for SSF? So ungrateful...

"

grepman wrote:

Well, you have to understand the dynamics of people who push for SSF here.

Only a small fraction actually wants competitive SSF

The majority don't like that drops/content is focused around trading and want drops/accessibility to be upped [for even moar instant gratification]

for that majority, nothing really changes. they dont get d3-style drops [yet].

so in reality, the majority of those who push for SSF just dont like the grind/RNG/artificial impedence in the game to get shit.


something tells me tho that for that majority, non-ssf mode xbox poe will be more 'ssf' to them than ssf mode on PC. call it a hunch.

Nah, trade will always be more instant gratification than even smart loot SSF. I want progression without the broken rng that is balanced around trade. Right now, I hit merciless dried lake, go on a poe.trade shopping trip and I'm over-capped resists/geared through red maps. That is instant gratificaiton.

I rather have a progression where I work up to that point with less rng/more deterministic way to build up to that point by the time I hit red maps. Trade is gear spikes where you go 0-100 in one shopping trip. I want a curve that goes 0-10-20-30,etc.

If you tell your girlfriend that you cheated on her and then give her flowers and she doesnt suddenly turn all happy, would you say she is "so ungrateful" ?

especially since you had ans could have given her the flowers for a long time already but you kept them for when you tell her you were cheating on her

"

Druga1757 wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

Well, you have to understand the dynamics of people who push for SSF here.

Only a small fraction actually wants competitive SSF

The majority don't like that drops/content is focused around trading and want drops/accessibility to be upped [for even moar instant gratification]

for that majority, nothing really changes. they dont get d3-style drops [yet].

so in reality, the majority of those who push for SSF just dont like the grind/RNG/artificial impedence in the game to get shit.


something tells me tho that for that majority, non-ssf mode xbox poe will be more 'ssf' to them than ssf mode on PC. call it a hunch.

Nah, trade will always be more instant gratification than even smart loot SSF. I want progression without the broken rng that is balanced around trade. Right now, I hit merciless dried lake, go on a poe.trade shopping trip and I'm over-capped resists/geared through red maps. That is instant gratificaiton.

if you play SSF under current rules, you cant trade anyway.

the rest of what you say is just agreeing with me. majority of people who champion SSF don't want the rules to be enforced, because they're already handicapping their play and there is little to no point in cheating already.

what this majority SSF want is to get more drops and reduce RNG. which results, like you've said, in a more deterministic, and on average faster waltz through the game.

all the masks can be removed now, its too obvious. majority of SSFers dont really want 'SSF' as a concept, they want to game to not be based around trade, therefore showering them with items and currency, and removing RNG gating of high level content.

the problem is that you turn a game about grinding into a 'single player offline arpg' in which you will complete everything in 100 hours and then move on, because a game like poe that is inherently about grind, is quite shallow once you remove the grind. it doesnt involve skill nor is there a concrete progression of items once you reach endgame.

Yum Yum, such delicious bait.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

grepman wrote:

What this majority SSF want is to get more drops and reduce RNG. which results, like you've said, in a more deterministic, and on average faster waltz through the game.

all the masks can be removed now, its too obvious. majority of SSFers dont really want 'SSF' as a concept, they want to game to not be based around trade, therefore showering them with items and currency, and removing RNG gating of high level content.

the problem is that you turn a game about grinding into a 'single player offline arpg' in which you will complete everything in 100 hours and then move on, because a game like poe that is inherently about grind, is quite shallow once you remove the grind. it doesnt involve skill nor is there a concrete progression of items once you reach endgame.

You are presuming that the majority of SSF players are grinders that will get to level 100 in a few 100 hours if GGG were to make SSF separate from Standard with higher drop rates on endgame quality gear. Since 90% of players never get a level 90 build (I only just got 1 exile to 90 a month ago only because last fall a Bino's dropped for me and I had just watched Mathil's crit/chaos BF Assassin build guide) most SSF players are in the casual player camp than in the grinding every day camp and thus will not burn through an SSF league and quit. My level 90 Assassin in 3/4ths the way to level 91 so GGG is in no danger of me getting to 100 and quitting. On the other hand by not fixing trade or reducing lag to make group play work well and pushing me into SSF I am not financially supporting GGG either so they lose. Besides that, if anyone posts stating that they'd get to level 100 fast and then quit should never play the SSF League in the first place. It is not their "goldilocks" way to play PoE so using that as an argument for why GGG shouldn't make a completely separate SSF League is illogical. GGG seems to think that an Xbox One version of PoE will generate beaucoup revenue for them and it'll be a completely separate version with no cross-trading or muling of items possible so a fully self-contained SSF is in the same vein.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

You are presuming that the majority of SSF players are grinders that will get to level 100 in a few 100 hours if GGG were to make SSF separate from Standard with higher drop rates on endgame quality gear. Since 90% of players never get a level 90 build (I only just got 1 exile to 90 a month ago only because last fall a Bino's dropped for me and I had just watched Mathil's crit/chaos BF Assassin build guide) most SSF players are in the casual player camp than in the grinding every day camp and thus will not burn through an SSF league and quit.

ssf is a composite state of mind. it includes both grinders and casuals. the grinders will burn out faster.

if we're talking about the casuals, the same concept apply:
the problem, again, is basically what SSF in this context REALLY means is that a justification for saying : "base the game around MY playing time and I want my RNG to always win". selfish, untrue to the core of the game, and CASUAL.

basically, they want a mode for someone who cannot enjoy a niche game but wants to enjoy the 'casual mode'.

so again, its not really about ssf. its about getting more returns in the same amount of time in a non-trade environment. it's about making the game more casual.

yeah, I will never agree with that, even if we're kinda going that route already and have been so since basically talisman. casual games dont create hardcore modes, why should a game about grind have a casual mode for people who can only play so many hours in a week/month/year

some games require time investment. if one doesnt have time he probably wont be playing eve as a casual game and probably wont ask for eve as a standalone casual version of regular eve.

"

grepman wrote:

"

Druga1757 wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

Well, you have to understand the dynamics of people who push for SSF here.

Only a small fraction actually wants competitive SSF

The majority don't like that drops/content is focused around trading and want drops/accessibility to be upped [for even moar instant gratification]

for that majority, nothing really changes. they dont get d3-style drops [yet].

so in reality, the majority of those who push for SSF just dont like the grind/RNG/artificial impedence in the game to get shit.


something tells me tho that for that majority, non-ssf mode xbox poe will be more 'ssf' to them than ssf mode on PC. call it a hunch.

Nah, trade will always be more instant gratification than even smart loot SSF. I want progression without the broken rng that is balanced around trade. Right now, I hit merciless dried lake, go on a poe.trade shopping trip and I'm over-capped resists/geared through red maps. That is instant gratificaiton.

if you play SSF under current rules, you cant trade anyway.

the rest of what you say is just agreeing with me. majority of people who champion SSF don't want the rules to be enforced, because they're already handicapping their play and there is little to no point in cheating already.

what this majority SSF want is to get more drops and reduce RNG. which results, like you've said, in a more deterministic, and on average faster waltz through the game.

all the masks can be removed now, its too obvious. majority of SSFers dont really want 'SSF' as a concept, they want to game to not be based around trade, therefore showering them with items and currency, and removing RNG gating of high level content.

the problem is that you turn a game about grinding into a 'single player offline arpg' in which you will complete everything in 100 hours and then move on, because a game like poe that is inherently about grind, is quite shallow once you remove the grind. it doesnt involve skill nor is there a concrete progression of items once you reach endgame.

Nah, the grind will always be slower than it is with trade. Trade lets you skip to the end. At least with SSF, even with smart loot, you can't skip to the end.

"

"

grepman wrote:

"

Arrowneous wrote:

You are presuming that the majority of SSF players are grinders that will get to level 100 in a few 100 hours if GGG were to make SSF separate from Standard with higher drop rates on endgame quality gear. Since 90% of players never get a level 90 build (I only just got 1 exile to 90 a month ago only because last fall a Bino's dropped for me and I had just watched Mathil's crit/chaos BF Assassin build guide) most SSF players are in the casual player camp than in the grinding every day camp and thus will not burn through an SSF league and quit.

ssf is a composite state of mind. it includes both grinders and casuals. the grinders will burn out faster.

if we're talking about the casuals, the same concept apply:
the problem, again, is basically what SSF in this context REALLY means is that a justification for saying : "base the game around MY playing time and I want my RNG to always win". selfish, untrue to the core of the game, and CASUAL.

basically, they want a mode for someone who cannot enjoy a niche game but wants to enjoy the 'casual mode'.

so again, its not really about ssf. its about getting more returns in the same amount of time in a non-trade environment. it's about making the game more casual.

yeah, I will never agree with that, even if we're kinda going that route already and have been so since basically talisman. casual games dont create hardcore modes, why should a game about grind have a casual mode for people who can only play so many hours in a week/month/year

some games require time investment. if one doesnt have time he probably wont be playing eve as a casual game and probably wont ask for eve as a standalone casual version of regular eve.

Dude, 'casual' is taking the easy way out. In PoE, the easy way out is called gear shopping.

again, in context in SSF, you cant trade anyway. is that so hard to understand ? if you're playing with a self-imposed handicap of SSF, you cant trade to start with.

that handicap should be more than enough especially in todays state of the game, if thats the true intentions. but its NOT the true intentions.

you shouldnt be needing to up the drops or remove rng gating or lower the variance.

also, your definition of 'casual' is off. casual isnt taking the 'easy way out', its wanting to get a lot of without putting in work. streamers take easy ways out all the time, but they're hardly casual players. and on other hand, casual players cant take an easy way out by buying an expensive item, because most of the time they arent going to have much currency. so your definition is a contradiction is thus wrong.

in a game like poe where its literally a function of time and about grinding, you need to put in time. your gear progression wont be smooth without trade, of course, but thats why people play SSF right ?

instead, to me it seems the majority of people who prop up SSF really just want better drops and 'favorable' RNG so they could put in much less time and get more shit in return. which is the pure definition of 'instant gratification' and the opposite of 'grind'