Display bug in skill damage?
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A few days ago a friend asked me to check his math on skill damage because he was coming up with a different result than the game. I couldn't find anything wrong so I suggested he strips off any buffs he can (as they are potential sources of errors) and checks again. Today this conversation followed.
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2017/01/15 21:28:07 10422652 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: So, you know how you said strip everything down and start from the beginning and see where it goes wrong
2017/01/15 21:28:19 10433935 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Well, it's wrong immediately, lmao 2017/01/15 21:28:59 10474475 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: You mean without any auras, golems, supports, items etc? 2017/01/15 21:29:04 10479452 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Nothing but Surge, skill points, and nakedness. And it's off by a tiny bit. 2017/01/15 21:29:07 10482412 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Yeah 2017/01/15 21:29:12 10487464 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: How tiny? 2017/01/15 21:29:26 10500875 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Too much to be rounding. Undoing the rounding doesn't cover it. It's umm 2017/01/15 21:29:38 10513482 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Tooltip 10.3k, calculated 10.6k 2017/01/15 21:30:16 10551837 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: The casts per second tooltip come up spot on of what's calculated, which is always does, so that's ruled out 2017/01/15 21:30:39 10574500 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Hmm, I'll try taking the jewels out, but I'm not optimistic that'll solve anything 2017/01/15 21:34:23 10797906 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: I know. I'll do some reverse math. So, we know cast speed's not the issue. We'll try dividing by the increase modifier, and see what the game thinks is my base average. Or the other way around, see what it thinks is my modifier. 2017/01/15 21:34:33 10808664 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Sorry, guess I'm thinking out loud with you, lol 2017/01/15 21:38:07 11022691 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: I wonder if elemental overload causes something funny with the game's math 2017/01/15 21:38:37 11052520 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: I was wondering that. Like, you mean how it butchers the crit mult, and the game is like, "wait, what?" 2017/01/15 21:49:17 11692164 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Can you check if the average of "spell total combined damage" multiplied by "casts per second" on the character sheet comes up to the "damage per second" value? Because it doesn't for me. 2017/01/15 21:49:41 11716455 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: You could also check your own math against the total combined damage values. 2017/01/15 21:50:28 11762968 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Mine comes up exactly. 2017/01/15 21:50:59 11794450 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: But on my Storm Caller, for whatever this may be worth, Storm Call only has "Damage per use" rather than "Damage per second". It won't calc the casts per second. 2017/01/15 21:51:56 11851104 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Yeah, Icestorm (from WI) does the same, because it's too complicated for a single DPS value. 2017/01/15 21:56:14 12109404 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Okay those character sheet values for me are off by the factor of crit damage. However! To get my calculated damage to match the total damage values I need to include crit chance. Unless I'm wielding WI in which case there's some unknown factor I can't get to match. 2017/01/15 21:57:09 12164460 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: So the game accounts for crit chance for the total combined damage values, then accounts for it *again* for the DPS value? 2017/01/15 21:57:25 12180255 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: I don't think so, no. 2017/01/15 21:58:45 12260658 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Well, I have a level 12 flame surge gem which does 199-299 base damage. Without WI I have 435% increased damage, 7.8% crit chance and 150% crit multiplier. The character sheet reports 864-1298 total combined damage. 2017/01/15 21:59:19 12294584 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Sorry, 318% increased. 435% was with WI. 2017/01/15 21:59:55 12330127 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: 199*(1+3.18)*(1+0.078*0.5) gives 864 as expected. 2017/01/15 22:00:05 12340132 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Looks like the crit stats are included in the combined dmg report 2017/01/15 22:00:56 12391058 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: The reported DPS is 3144.85. The average combined damage is 1081 and casts per second is 2.8. 1081*2.8 = 3026.8. 2017/01/15 22:01:38 12433463 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: If we calculate the ratio, we get 1.039. This so happens to be equal to 1+0.078*0.5, the crit factor from above. 2017/01/15 22:03:25 12539964 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Your said your calculated DPS is 10.6k and character sheet reports 10.3k? The ratio between those is 1.029, which, allowing for some rounding errors, matches the default crit factor of flame surge (6% chance for 150% damage -> 1.03). 2017/01/15 22:03:41 12556161 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Huh. 2017/01/15 22:03:58 12573430 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Though that could also be coincidence of some other thing, to be fair 2017/01/15 22:04:06 12581015 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Just as a note 2017/01/15 22:04:17 12592071 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Hmm let's see with some supports. 2017/01/15 22:07:14 12769232 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Adding critical supports does not change the total combined damage but does change the damage per second. 2017/01/15 22:07:41 12796074 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: lol, Interesting. 2017/01/15 22:07:51 12805881 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Hmm what about other sources, like items. 2017/01/15 22:08:05 12820464 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: I have 30% crit chance on tree and that did get included in the total combined damage. 2017/01/15 22:08:07 12822840 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Both crit strikes and crit mult affected it? 2017/01/15 22:08:46 12861639 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: But, wouldn't false crit stats only increase tooltip DPS? My tooltip DPS falls short of what it sohuld be, rather than too high. 2017/01/15 22:09:26 12900903 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: My guess is that in trying to account for elemental overload's no crit multiplier the game incorrectly reduces your displayed damage by the crit factor. 2017/01/15 22:09:47 12922274 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Diamond ring has no effect on total combined damage. 2017/01/15 22:10:00 12935720 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Ok, so does only crit chance? 2017/01/15 22:10:15 12950567 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Maybe it's trying to figure out EO's calculation somehow? 2017/01/15 22:11:03 12998361 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Well so far only default crit stats and tree nodes seem to affect the displayed damage and this character doesn't have any other crit nodes. 2017/01/15 22:11:03 12998428 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Argh, nooo, that still doesn't explain it, because my calculated tooltip's X amount would still be lower than anything the game tried to figure out that included some bullshit EO calc 2017/01/15 22:11:51 13046190 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: BRB on my ranger, she has different amount of crit on tree 2017/01/15 22:15:43 13278797 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Hmm, here the damage values are off by only the default crit factor. 2017/01/15 22:16:08 13303169 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Even though I have 80% increased crit chance and +40% crit multi on tree. 2017/01/15 22:16:09 13304146 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Whereas the other char was off by a little more than the default? 2017/01/15 22:16:42 13337353 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Yes. And the "little more" was exactly equal to the effect of the single 30% crit chance node. 2017/01/15 22:17:18 13372971 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: The ranger has EO? 2017/01/15 22:17:29 13384686 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Neither of these characters has it 2017/01/15 22:17:42 13397036 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: oh, but yet still, the DPS is off? 2017/01/15 22:17:47 13401878 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Yes 2017/01/15 22:18:46 13461022 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: This one doesn't have any nodes or other bonuses that would affect flame surge. The 199-299 base damage turns into 205-308 on the character sheet. 2017/01/15 22:19:24 13499632 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: I'm pretty sure there's a display bug somewhere here. 2017/01/15 22:20:09 13544455 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: It seems borderline impossible to pinpoint from a player's end though 2017/01/15 22:20:30 13565640 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Lotta guesswork, and seemingly a lot of inconsistencies 2017/01/15 22:22:35 13690851 951 [INFO Client 59] @To ElementalistMasterRace: Mind if I copypaste a log of this conversation into the bug report forum so someone from GGG can take a look at it? 2017/01/15 22:23:02 13717065 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Sure 2017/01/15 22:23:04 13719275 951 [INFO Client 59] @From ElementalistMasterRace: Hi mom! Summary: The "total combined spell damage" value on character sheet seems to include the default critical chance and multiplier of the spell in question, and possibly some tree nodes as well (but apparently not all). The result is a slightly higher displayed damage than manually calculated. This is evidenced by a 199-299 damage flame surge turning to 205-308 damage on the character sheet on a character with no applicable damage increases in tree or items. The DPS value then includes the full critical stats of the skill, which means that the default critical stats are included twice. When elemental overload is allocated, the displayed damage is less than the calculated damage, again by a factor of the default critical stats. My guess is that the display code tries to account for EO but ends up doing the wrong thing, maybe because it's already accounted for somewhere else? It's hard to say without seeing the game code. Last bumped on Jan 23, 2017, 7:30:16 AM
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That chat log is really hard to read. Can't you just get him to post a couple screenshots?
Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com | |
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I'm not sure what they're smoking. Elemental Overload and Crit stats have no effect on Spell Total Combined Damage. Not for Flame Surge, not for Fireball, not for Firestorm. I have just double-checked this in game, allocating and refunding various Crit passives and/or EO.
Are you sure they're not confusing listed DPS and Total Damage? Last edited by Vipermagi on Jan 15, 2017, 10:13:36 PM
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I'm having trouble getting actual usable information from the wall of text, it would really help me work out where the error is creeping in if you could give a specific situation I can replicate (with as few items/modifiers as possible), and tell me the value you're expecting and the value you see in game.
I can definitely tell you that this: "is absolutely not the case. That stat is only the minimum and maximum damage with applicable damage modifiers. It does not and cannot account for anything involving critical strikes. | |
" I'm sure. At one point I asked him to check if the total damage multiplied by casts per second matches the listed DPS, and it matched. " I found the errors in my own tests. My ranger had a ring with 3% increased fire damage which I had failed to notice. Similarly my WI elementalist had fingerless silk gloves with the spell damage implicit. In both cases the missed increased modifier just happened to match what critical strikes would have given. The actual information was included in the summary. I will ask my friend to post a screenshot and tree link here so you can check it. |
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Alright. Just got the PM, Data, gimme one second... (I type as if this were a live discussion, I can't help it.)
Ok. So this all started when I noticed my tooltip DPS was lower than what I had calculated. I rechecked my calculations a billion times, and could find nothing that I missed. Blah blah, I asked Data to check my work, blah blah, he suggested I strip everything down to utmost simplicity, I did, and I still had the same problem. So let's see what everyone here thinks... I am currently stripped down to our good pal Tabby Ra, and my Flame Surge. Keep note, it's 20% quality, which gives 10% cast speed.
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 And this is my current Skill tree setup. Pay no heed to its sloppiness near the bottom, I'm halfway through my plan of paths & respecs :P
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 Unfortunately, I cannot take a screenshot of my in-game Skill route AND have my character sheet and inventory sheet all open at once. The Skill tree won't be big enough. So if you may, just assume I'm not wrong, lying, pulling anyone's leg, etc. So let's put the stats up. ---- Base Damage: 514-771 Average: 643 (642.5, game seems to round to nearest - either way, all 3 options with this number wind up with numbers being off) Increase Mult Base: 100 Spell: 90 Ele: 88 Fire: 142 AoE: 30 Total Mult: 4.50 Cast Speed Base per Second: 2 Increase: 69 Total CPS: 3.38 (confirmed exactly in screenshot) TOTAL CALCULATED: 9780 TOTAL IN-GAME: 9773.27 ---- Now, right now while naked, that's pretty minor. You might chalk that up as roundings here and there. Using the average DPS of 642.5 in pure, we get 9772.425, which is very close. But from my past experiences, "close" is still wrong. The game's always been spot-on for me, not just close. But let's move on to fully equipping me. This won't even include auras or golems. ---- What We're Adding Base Damage: 35-70 (weapon) Increase: 194% (weapon, belt, gems, and 34% from jewels) More: 59%, 48%, 44% (gems - one still lv.19) Less: 10% (Spell Echo) Cast Speed: 17% Increase, 70% More (2% increase from jewel, easy to miss) Total Final Base & Mults Base: 549-841 Average: 695 Increase: 6.44 More: 1.59, 1.48, 1.44, 0.9 (or 3.0497472) Cast: 6.324 (strange, shows as 6.33 in-game, should round to 6.32) TOTAL CALCULATED: 86,322.97 TOTAL IN-GAME: 86,376.02
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 ---- Ok, so it's still pretty close, more than I expected it to be... Though I'm not sure why the tooltip says 6.33 casts per second. We only gained 15% increase from weapon, 2% inc from jewel, and 70% More from Spell Echo. That should be 6.32. In fact, multiplying by a 6.33 mod instead of 6.324 (which I did) just makes the calculated that much more further ahead from the in-game display. But oh well. Moving on. I think the next part is where the most discrepancies lie. ---- What We're Adding Base: 95-159 (lv.22 Anger) Additional: 19-32 (20% Anger increase from Influence) Increase: 80% (Fire Golem + Liege of the Primordial) Cast: 18% Increase (Lightning Golem) Total Final Base & Mults Base: 663-1032 Average: 847.5 (should round to 848, but using its purest form for the purest result) Increase: 7.24 More: 1.59, 1.48, 1.44, 0.9 (or 3.0497472) Cast: 6.94 (confirmed in-game, sorta makes the previous cast speed issue that much odder) TOTAL CALCULATED: 129,867.83 TOTAL IN-GAME: 125,308.64
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 ---- So yeah. This is the phase in which the biggest problem occurs. So let's analyze it, I suppose. Easiest first, we added the golems. Liege of the Primordial increases the Fire Golem buff by 100%, making it go from 20% increased damage to 40%. This should check out in theory. Additionally, because he's a fire-type golem, Liege is granting me 40% increased fire damage. That's why that step is granting me 80% total increased damage. Then, just the same, we have Lightning Golem. Defaulting at 9% cast speed, he becomes 18%. But the cast speed 100% checks out, so moving on anyway. Now we got Anger. First and foremost, Essence Worm is making it level 22. This is granting 95-159 fire damage. Then, Influence should be increasing that by 20%. Giving those numbers a 1.2 multiplier, you should get 114-190.8. So let's just go ahead & round that to 114-191. I promise the 0.2 difference isn't causing the 4.5k DPS difference. But now with all that covered, what's up? There's nothing left to check. I have once considered, maybe because my Anger is corrupted, Essence Worm can't bmup its level. I checked that by putting Anger in any red socket, and it did give me less damage than before. I also respecced out of Influence to see if maybe Anger wasn't being affected by it. Again, Influence is confirmed to be affecting Anger. Additionally, Flame Surge is indeed 100% damage effectiveness. So, I dunno. Let me try taking away just Fire Golem... This should bring me down 80% increase, let's see if that's reflective on my tooltip... I come up with 115,517.79 calculated DPS when I strip away Fire Golem. Survey says...!
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 111,463.34 Whomp whomp whompppp... So that ~4k DPS still remains missing. So that confirms Fire Golem is not the primary culprit? Let's try stripping Anger altogether, perhaps - which was my theory yesterday while chatting with Data - Flame Surge might not actually be 100% damage effectiveness. ... I should strip the weapon, too, then. Ok, so, let's see... No weapon, no Anger. Putting Fire Golem back in. I'm down 15% cast speed, 83% damage, and running purely off of Flame Surge's base damage.
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 Lmao... And right out of the gate, the cast speed does not check out. 6.426 is what I calculated, and yet tooltip says 6.41. Can you see my frustration with this whole thing? So let's move on. We'll run both cast speeds into the following calculations, cuz fuck it. Average Flame Surge should be 642.5, and now my damage increaser should be 6.41. Ok... 80,711.56 with the 6.426 calculated cast speed. 80,510.59 with the 6.41 in-game cast speed. 80,487.17 is the in-game DPS tooltip, which is behind the other two results... So let's round Flame Surge's average down to 642... 80,648.75 with the calculated cast speed. 80447.94 with in-game cast speed. Which is closer, and pretty close. But... you know what, let's see if my in-game stats even match their own selves at this point... Spell Total Combined Damage: 10,045-15,068 Average: 12556.5 Casts per Second: 6.41 Calculated: 80,487.165 In-game: 80,487.17 So that checks out... So... What the fuck, man, I'm just soooo... *takes a big stretch IRL*... But I will say, that makes me believe the game never actually rounds numbers in its formula, only in its final display. But that doesn't really change anything that we've done thus far. I dunno, dude. Break time for me. If you followed this whole ridiculous post, major props for persistence or whatever. | |
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Let's try it this way...
So the game thinks my min damage is 10,045. We know for sure my min base is 514. We know for sure my More/Less mults are 1.59, 1.48, 1.44, and 0.9. So we'll divide 10045 by 1567.5700608. The game believes I have 6.408007049377809 Increase multiplier. Which... Well, we round it and I do indeed have 6.41... Ok. Thought I'd try it that way. And it got me nowhere. Fuck me. | |
" I did my best to replicate this tree in the online planner, but it doesn't seem to add up with the bonuses you have labelled in the image. Before I go any further, can you confirm if this matches the tree you're displaying in your image? If so, then the totals shown in the image don't match the stats from those passives. There's no "increased Attack and Cast speed" (image claims 8%), the total for "increased Cast Speed" should be 46% (not 51%), and the total for "increased Elemental Damage" should be 48% (not 88%). I can't see a difference between what I see in the image and what I selected in the tree - there are a couple of places the zoom made be squint to work out if a particular passive was taken or not, but they wouldn't explain these discrepancies. It might be an error in whatever skill tree planner you used to take the screenshot (I tried several I found online and none fully matched the displayed interface, so I don't know which one you used to try it for myself), or I might be blind and have completely missed some passives, but either way sorting out this difference in the input values needs to happen before I can examine the calculations in more detail. | |
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The GGG skill tree says there are a total of 123 skill points to assign, the Ops skill tree says there are only 122 skill points to assign. They are either using an old tree planner or a bugged planner.
Computer specifications:
Windows 10 Pro x64 | AMD Ryzen 5800X3D | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | MSI Geforce 1070Ti Gamer | Corsair AX 760watt PSU | Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD & WD Black FZEX HDD |
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" The PoE website planner doesn't account for bandits, which can reduce the number of points possible. U MAD?
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