We are seeing first hand why GGG needs to step in..

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vio wrote:

"

almostdead wrote:

But claiming that he cannot do whatever he wants with a site he has created himself and owns is completely wrong in my opinion.

valid opinion of yours, i would be interested if you're still up to it when you got excluded from trade because some people claimed you're a scammer?

whatever, eventually it all depends on whether ggg binds the usage of the api data on open access to the processed data for everyone.

If xyz decided to remove my listings from his page/remove my access from his page it would of course suck, but it would be his call and there is noone to complain about it.

Also, important to note that poe.trade did exist before the data from api. Anyway as long as the api is public it doesn't matter.

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vio wrote:

the question is, is he bound to equally provide access for all users who use the trading tab ingame, independently on what they do ingame otherwise?

he isn't bound to anything.

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Boem wrote:

If that's true and i assume it is, it's still not within XyZ authority to act on it, since he isn't a gm and doesn't enforce fundamental game rules.

He's a third party providing a service, as long as he doesn't have some kind of "follow these rules when using my site" he shouldn't act like he is.

If he explicitly makes rules to use his site, then i see no issue with this behavior.(removing players in violation of those rules)

It's his site, he can do whatever he wants with it. If today he decides he removes all unique items and all players whose account was created after 2016 he can freely do so. It might not be "proper" thing to do and it isn't probabaly good for the site but claiming he needs some explicit rules or that it isn't within his authority is frankly bullshit.

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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

The one concept you seem to not be able to grasp is that this guy, who by your admission is third party, is in fact allowed to do whatever he wants. We're all at his mercy and his judgment. That isn't a secret.

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almostdead wrote:

It's his site, he can do whatever he wants with it. If today he decides he removes all unique items and all players whose account was created after 2016 he can freely do so. It might not be "proper" thing to do and it isn't probabaly good for the site but claiming he needs some explicit rules or that it isn't within his authority is frankly bullshit.

Calm your tits [Removed by Support].

I'm obviously addressing this from an overarching perspective projecting to the future.

It has nothing to do with me not understanding Xyz's power position in this whole matter, i'm just advising against letting personal opinion and bias dictate how that power is utilized.

It's not that he "cant" do whatever he wants, it's that he should think carefully before exploiting his position and doing so.

I wouldn't find anything wrong with his behavior if for example he had a moral code of conduct for utilizing the service he provides. Which in my opinion seems like a solid way to solve the power conflict issue i am seeing.

Peace,

-Boem-

What is happening there isn't a scam, how should it be, because those Orbs are still traded regulary.

If you agree on a trade that is 1ex to 1c than this isn't a scam because you agreed to the deal. This is a manipulation of the market and actually I already benefit from it, because it isn't just a manipulation for few, it is for many, since it actually drives the prices for exalts down massively.

All this is is essentially a change in pricing, which happens exspecially during the start of a league and if you just hop on board you can benefit from it. Because I got multipe exalts already for very low prices, which is kinda cool, because the sellers of other items like 6l chests and stuff don't react quick enough so you can sell a bunch of chaos for cheap exalts and buy expensive stuff with that. In the long run the prices for Disfavour or 6l chests etc. will go up accordingly but in the short time you can just cash in.

The only ones that are hurt by that are RMTers, because if the price of exalts drop buying them for actual money is less appealing. Unless they make exalts cheaper to buy as well which loses them profit.

"

Except plenty of people did, as evidenced to the fact that people were posting regarding why their account was locked towards the end of Perandus league. This is the issue, GGG isn't being very consistent. You allow scamming, but once it gets out of control you step in, but then you also don't allow people to name/shame others. It makes absolutely zero sense.

Yeah and that is fine, because it was a trade. If one party offers the service but the other isn't paying this is a scam. If someone posts deals he never intends to actually do just to manipulate the prices it is not a scam. It would be a scam if he wants to buy exalts for 80 and only pays 50, which isn't the case because people still have to agree to an actual trade.

And they started punishing trade scams back when there wasn't even a trade window, they didn't want to do it at first, but they ultimately gave in. And Perandus scams are trading without a trade window.

Also if he bans people from his site he doesn't need any rules. If he wants to ban people because he doesn't like their name he is free to do so. GGG doesn't have anything to do with his site, however they might react on this if it goes too far, because he could technically team up with some people and help them get rich by banning competition. But I assume GGG does monitor how those sites behave or maybe he even got in contact with them about it.

Also GGG doesn't ban out of the blue sky. If they do so they usually make a point before hand that they dislike certain activities. In Perandus this wasn't actually necessary because it is essentially the same as scamming on kill services. The only thing they don't care about is scamming if you trade between leagues because they don't really want that to happen. But again this isn't scamming, it might be dickish, but since there is never an agreement to trade there is nothing you can break.

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Boem wrote:

I'm obviously addressing this from an overarching perspective projecting to the future.

It has nothing to do with me not understanding Xyz's power position in this whole matter, i'm just advising against letting personal opinion and bias dictate how that power is utilized.

It's not that he "cant" do whatever he wants, it's that he should think carefully before exploiting his position and doing so.

I wouldn't find anything wrong with his behavior if for example he had a moral code of conduct for utilizing the service he provides. Which in my opinion seems like a solid way to solve the power conflict issue i am seeing.

Peace,

-Boem-

Ultimately XYZ is improving his site by doing this, and if there was an alternative that curated the posted deals more carefully to remove chronically afk/dnd/price manipulating sellers I would use it and never look back. He is probably aware that other people agree or maybe he just tried to buy a cheap item and got annoyed that all the prices were fake or unavailable. I agree that having some sort of guidelines would be ideal though.

duplicate post

"

It's a huge screw up by GGG that they allowed it to happen this way from the beginning.

I don't feel that way. It is actually smart ressource allocation. Because as long as 3rd party tools are working it means that they can allocate ressources to other things. This is essentially what Blizzard did with the WoW UI, instead of making it better themself they just let content creators on it with the side effect that players now have much more customizable UIs, because they can essentially pick what they want.

And after all they still have control over the API and another thing is if xyz missuses the abilities provided by those API other people might just make a competitive platform and in the end the users decide.

Bots cannot be properly fought without making a game that is realistic in their assumptions about peoples will to gain more.

Top items being earned(with actual timesink to earn it) and bound is the only way to properly address them - like you see in for example world of warcraft with the best items being drops from the content and only a few of the really good items are tradeable - in that game the top stuff is bound/earned, and low/mid as well as supportive/fun stuff/crafting materials are often tradedable and still we see a thriving market. As long as there are tradeable things to desire at every level and that the top items are generally not tradeable. Every item/type of item has to be considered if it should be tradeable or bound.

I have no respect for little braindead crying hes afraid of bound items that have to be earned because it is not in Diablo 2 spirit - it is a superior system and the markets are doing extremely well still in those games as confirmation, it is just that you have to earn the best things and cannot buy them which will practically alter the way many approach the game.

The game will be about playing the game and not trading to rise the highest. For everyone. It will mean things can start dropping for everyone instead of it being limited hugely because of bots - leading back to one of the reasons why D2 was just fun that did flow and PoE is starving constantly holding players in a fucking chokehold and if anything in game gets satisfyingly rewarding and widely used it will be raped to make sure 98% of players are back in the chokehold. This doesn't mean everything is super easy to get, that can still be made exactly as difficult as anyone wishes it.

The weakness of bound items are that you can get shafted by RNG without supporting systems. To this end completion of time consuming processes can enable things to be acquired, processes that can be started for example by rare tradeable items. Systems to help you focus RNG actually similar to blood shards in d3 can also exist with any degree of focus from certain requirement after longtime investment to simply focusing more new chances so you have to be even more unlucky to not get it, to sharding/dusting of uniques of various tiers/basetype leading to crafts/new chances and probably many many more systems.

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Emphasy wrote:

The only ones that are hurt by that are RMTers, because if the price of exalts drop buying them for actual money is less appealing. Unless they make exalts cheaper to buy as well which loses them profit.

Anyone with a bit of brains, can connect the dots.

GGG needs to implement some sort of auto buy. AFK or dont respond too bad you list something and someone fronts currency, item is removed from your stash and transferred to his. Would end this shit quick.

Today their are whole groups doing price manipulation because just one guy listing a low price is looked over by majority of astute players but 4 or 5 low listings most think thats the market price when in fact they are fake prices with no intention of selling.

They also use a different indexer set for items they are manipulating so they get item someone decides to PM the groups fraud price before you ever hear a whoop.