Hybrid builds: Do they have merit?
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dear OP: what is your PERSONAL experience in this area? you throw bold statements around. yet what qualifies you to make them without preamble 'i imagine that..'? your character list shows two characters: one basic RF inquisitor (weird concept but lets move on) and a completely bothed hierophant
are you really ready to talk about merits of builds you have never experienced? reading wiki and reddit does not substitute experience answering your question: yes, they have. but these builds are for experienced players that are ready to think outside the meta and copy-pasta box. 3/4 of the stuff you wrote here is just funny and is as far from the truth as it can possibly be. Last edited by sidtherat on Dec 23, 2016, 12:23:32 AM
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" I had those enchants on previous boots before I opted for my current set due to needing a bit more chaos resist. I must say, pretty nice build choice there, it's pretty much a life build that just so happens to have MoM for extra protection. Firestorm's persistent damage+warlord's mark is pretty good for mid combat mana restore. 1. Life+ES+MoM, yes trickster seems to be highly effective in this regard. I'd wager both Trickster and Occultist are possibly the best trees when it comes to approaching this hybrid given faster start of energy recharge and recovery. 2. Life + ES + Ghost Reaver + Vaal Pact. Yes it seems to work when ES is being stacked in high amounts. But, it's just that as you said, it's a precursor to CI and most ditch the entire life portion when they swap. CI just provides too much benefit than to constantly juggle life pots in regards to Chaos Damage. That usually means they don't actively build life as a defense, and only pick it up matter-of-factly the same way people use leveling skills before they switch to their main build. I fully agree with you about eldritch battery. " Again, you question my experience on the basis of just this account. I'm well versed in the game. I have found pure builds to be better to my liking as it streamlines defense, necessary stats, and flasks. If you're going to critique the characters that I have here, then you'll have to come to one of 2 conclusions. 1) My builds are exemplary of my game knowledge. They just go in different directions than your "meta thinking". or 2)My mechanical skill is more than enough to overcome the shortcomings of a "botched" build. Now, I'll admit I haven't gone extensively through every Ascendancy. I had missed the merits of Trickster when it comes to Life+ES builds. But, I'm well versed in the mechanics of gems, the passive tree, and scaling. I outlined what I saw were hindering factors to hybrid builds. As for "think outside the meta and copy-pasta box", that's not an argument. A build is either strong or it isn't. What you call meta are simply strong builds that become more well known. Niche builds are something that are either weaker, rely on far more conditional strength, or are exemplary of a playstyle choice over a game strength choice. Last edited by Tsokushin on Dec 23, 2016, 2:38:44 AM
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lots of words used to say 'i do not have experience about this stuff'
you try to twist this and cover with empty statements but it doesnt take much to see how far from the topic at hand you are. both armour and ev variants of life/es hybrids are perfectly viable endgame (except for the content 'lol balanced' around CI + instant leech..). what makes them not popular is that most novice players like the simple black/white binary solutions AND getting gear for these builds is nightmare due to it being filtered out. negative feedback loop here. try to get high es life archon shield.. noone picks this stuff up. i have a few hybrid builds at ~90 and they work just fine in red modded maps. these theories you spread are so absurd that i do not want to waste my time explaining that. youll reject it anyway necause you know best. right? | |
" Look here, I'm simply getting bored of you repeating "you're not experienced" when it simply isn't true. You can keep spouting it, repeating it, doesn't make it true and frankly I'm getting tired of responding to it. Stick to the subject and only the subject. Notice how before you entered this thread, most of the posts were of actual content and discussions on a point by point basis. " Well, this highlights more important points that veer slightly off topic. 1) Streamlined stats are easier to focus and build for. I touch upon this in Multiple Attribute Dependency. Yes, it's definitely more noob friendly in the sense that they have to focus less multiple stats, but it's a strength for pure builds for a reason. Easy to acquire, easy to find, easy to build around. 2) The CI+instant leech is what I've been talking about in my point about recovery. Now, there may be a point where that's nerfed, but part of the appeal of it, in addition to ignoring chaos damage, is high eHP and high recovery. Pure life builds also have this benefit in addition to usually not needing any form of stun protection. I've talked about these points in the OP. 3) Archon shields have a bonus 12% all resistances implicit. If that 12% is making or breaking your build, you can shift the burden onto your jewels (because resistance jewels are some of the cheapest I've seen) or into the rest of your gear. Plenty of High ES/life shields of other types. http://poe.trade/search/ikometukitarin No, they're not going to be cheap, because CI builds are more likely to utilize them due to high ES. Yes, they might be harder to color due to different stat requirements, but you have vorici and it's only 3 sockets. But, if it's the armor you're focusing on, I'm pretty sure 400-800 or so armor is not going to break your build. " The thing is, most of what you said is partially addressed in the OP. I've gone the distance and searched high HP+high ES shields for you, although I'm uncertain if you play breach league. Last edited by Tsokushin on Dec 23, 2016, 4:00:57 AM
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your experience is reading wiki and repeating stuff others say
try this stuff for once to see where you are wrong and how easy it is to circumvent these 'issues' you bring. really. nobody ever beat the armchair general because they never actually participated in battle! you have your standard rf guy you can respec or fix your hierophant and see for yourself nobody denies ci + insant leech is the strongest. it is and by an absurd proportion. but if you ask about merit - you ask about confirmation of your personal (noninformed i have to add) opinion. if you ask about something more measurable as in the contnt these builds can do - they have merit because aside.from.absurd rolled t16 and dps gated shaper (3rd round) i cannot find a problem. but even some pure builds struggle with these. lol balance on ggg side unfortunatelly nothing youce said so far exceedes wiki material. sorry. no examples. no personal experiences with diagnosis of what and why have failed. nothing. just standard rehashed opinions i have seen years ago. novice players flock to easy and simple (thats why some meta builds are so popular despite there being much stronger ones available) and everything they cannot understand they reject. this explains bf eq fb meta we have right now while explosive arrow and bv pathfinders are just as good yet much cheaper etcetc. note: before exploring hybrd builds id start and master the MoM. right now you are doing it totally wrong and this makes you not appreciate its merit | |
" Think what you may want to think. " Again, dps gates like shaper 3rd round can be a matter of opportunity cost. If you didn't have to split points into defenses you can get more dps. Now, there isn't many categories of builds that cannot reach t16 unless that build is either that badly worked out or it's specifically designed to fail. A lot of this game does come down to knowing and avoiding threats. A perfect example is the long rehashed melee+volatile blood situation right here in the forums. Sure, you can go melee, but you run into significant disadvantages compared to other builds. You can clear sometimes at the same speed, sometimes faster going with ranged options. Does playing melee have its merits understanding that situation? You can play Beethoven with only 3 fingers on each hand, but it doesn't mean it should be done. " " So, you're saying that people don't play other things because they don't understand. It's not because of the inherent strengths in other builds? It has to 100% simply be that they don't understand? The reason people don't play a molten strike build over an earthquake or Blade Flurry build is that they don't understand? It's never a matter of league-start currency farmers, ladder grinders or min-maxers seeking new content? It can never be that all of which are activities that emphasize damage, clear speed, survivability and how well it can run on little gear? Maybe a new person would use a "meta build", but usually on the basis of reading a guide. People in any game tend to gravitate to builds that have the greatest strengths and the fewest weaknesses. For you to call every person who doesn't play those builds "noobds who don't understand", then I don't know what to tell you. I don't agree with that position. I'm pretty sure if put as much effort into writing a guide for all these "powerful, little known builds" as you do falsely insulting my experience, you might get somewhere. As for EA and BV, BV dominated essence league dude. Everyone has always known EA is strong, most people go Blood Magic VP to sustain the cost. " Whatever you say dude. Last edited by Tsokushin on Dec 23, 2016, 7:19:51 AM
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" Sidtherat, the OP has made many good points about the weaknesses of hybrid builds, and I find his reasoning very sound. This more than makes up for the fact that he *might* not have as much experience in hybrid builds compared to you. There is no reason for you to be hostile; you seem to enjoy taking every opportunity to discredit him. If you're such an experienced and knowledgeable player as you claim, there is no need to resort to this. | |
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^It has nothing to do with being hostile, just different fields of experience.
Hybrid works and is strong, i've done it many times. Now the correct case to be made would be -> "is hybrid relevant and cost efficient compared to other types of builds" Because then the conclusion becomes a "nope". The level of investment to be made on hybrid builds is extremely high to reach satisfactory results. And the results, while satisfactory once all things come together are by no means more potent then regular one-sided focused builds. In short : if the exceeding amount of investment in comparison to other types doesn't produce exceeding results it is not efficient and not worth it, that's the current game state. People do it cause it's fun to mess with but not for efficiency's sake. Peace, -Boem- Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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the reason to point his experience or rather lack of it stems from his previous thread where he created a rather dramatic (mis)interpretation of facts about hierphant ascendancy having played not a single minute as one. the same situation repeats here - no experience, lots to say. empty cettle..
what he provides are THEORIES and HEARSAY evidence based on further more cool stories. it takes only one example to ruin a theory and my builds alone are enough, there are other posters in this thread that reported that things he claims fail in fact succeeded. all cool stories sound cool and the cooler the words used the easier it is to believe them if one has no personal experience. i happen to have one and i find most of what he wrote fiction based on imagination (ie reading wiki) note the 'moving of the goalpost' - merit right now means pretty much 'better than CI'.. cool. nothing is better as CI right now. is that a problem with hybrid builds (that one has to know how to build)? or maybe rather a problem with how stupid CI + instant leech is? to the OP: create a hybrid build. create a normal build and do a comparison. then ill help you sort your hybrid build out and then youll do second comparison. if you insist on talking about this stuff have the decency to at least know a bit about it FROM YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. there are throngs of people who never tried something but are 'experts'. this looks to be the case. smooth talking but with nothing to back it up. but please do not compare RF life based HP pool with hybrid spellcaster.. just dont | |
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Hybrid builds are one of more interesting conceptions out there and more so because it can be done in so many ways. Speaking about ci it definitely falls behind (in terms of strength), comparing to other defense types its ok i guess.
Recently i have been looking into two hybrid builds, thou they are just on paper atm. First one is hiero, using kitavas thirst with linked curses, so there will be a good opportunity to not reserve mana for curses, which as a result should be maintaining cursing effect at some extent and free mana for MoM. And second one, build using Coruscating_Elixir in first flask slot and in second slot eternal life flask with mod 25% reduced recovery and insta recovery on low life which would recover coruscating's depleted life. Not quite sure how this one would turn out, but with quick fingers it might actually work. Last edited by Andrius319 on Dec 23, 2016, 12:23:25 PM
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