Cloak of flame + The Formless Flame

So we have that has you take 20% of physical damage as fire damage.
So let's say I get hit for 1000
1000 - 20% = 800 physical + 200 fire
Now we assume I'm fire capped that is 200*0,25 = 50 fire damage.
In total I should receive 850 dmage.

Now I add a new item called the Formless Flame (http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/The_Formless_Flame)

It says "-20 fire damage taken when hit".
Now does that mean I should receive 830 damage instead since it subtracted from the fire hit?

If that's the case it should be super strong when tanking a lot of monster that don't really hit that strong but they hit fast. Or am I confusing something?

Now this item also has an upgraged version - http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/The_Formless_Inferno
and this one has the same thing as cloak of flame - 8% physical damage taken as fire.

So these thing typically aren't additive so I would guess it should go like this:

1000 hit
-20% from cloak of flame
800 physical - 200 fire
-8% from Formless Inferno (that would be 64)
736 physical + 264 fire
264*0,25 = 66

736+66 = 802

And that would mean it is in fact stronger when coupled with cloak of flame.

But is my math correct or did I screw something along the way?
The way it look the "weaker" version of this item would be stronger when taking a lot of smaller hits while the upgraded one should pull ahead with larger hits.

In the first case, you got it right.

In the second case, however, conversion happens at the same time (multiple instances of conversion stack additively, it only gets complicated once you get more than 100% total conversion), which means that with Formless Inferno and Cloak, you take 28% of physical as fire damage.
A hit for 1000 physical would hit you for 720 physical and 280 fire, leading to 790 (720 phys and 70 fire) after resistances.

Thanks for clarifying. In that case it's even better than I thought. A bit surprising to see percentages stacking additively but I'm all up for that.

I just thought of another thing. What if we add enfeeble to the mix? Where does it apply? Is it:

HIT -> Enfeeble -> Cloak of Flame -> Resistance -> Damage received

or

HIT -> Cloak of flame -> (Physical - enfeeble) + (fire - enfeeble) -> Resistance -> Damage received

or

HIT -> Cloak of flame -> Resistannce -> Enfeeble -> Damage received
?

So in the end it's going to be:

Enfeeble -> HIT -> Cloak -> Res -> damage

Thanks a lot.

For maximum trolling, wear a Rise of the Phoenix with this stuff.

Well to be serious I would consider it if it didn't mean losing out on so much damage from the shield.

And now all of that got me wondering how does armor fit in all that but I'm guessing it simply applies before everything.

"

werchiel wrote:

And now all of that got me wondering how does armor fit in all that but I'm guessing it simply applies before everything.

Damage type conversion applies first, which in most cases, means synergy with Armour; it lowers the size of the Hit that is Physical, which increases the PDR% from Armour.

EDIT: I made a spreadsheet calculating the "true less damage" from Lightning Coil which should work fine for this setup as well. I can dig up the link if you're interested.

"

I made a spreadsheet calculating the "true less damage" from Lightning Coil which should work fine for this setup as well. I can dig up the link if you're interested.

That would actually be a big help, I would be grateful if you could spare the time.

In the past I just found a build and played it like a bot not even thinking about why I take this or that just going the "road of least resistance" and "if the author of the build said so it must be so". But it just made me realize how lazy I have become. I never used to play like this - I allways analized and wanted to understand the mechanics - I spent 3 years in the first Guild Wars doing so. That's why I want to learn all this stuff so not only I can understand all the choices myself but I also want to make my own if I feel I should.

Damn - that's so poetic. In a very weird way.