I dont understand that. So you claim balancing team cant just multiply few numbers and see what result will be? Also, there isnt so much of exponential scaling in PoE to claim that it's the main source of imbalance.
If you think that fixing current balance in PoE is a VERY hard task, i'm going to dissapoint you with few simple suggestions:
1. Add few more life mods ("X% increased life, hybrid "+X life and stun recovery"), and add "+X life" implicit to few armour/evasion/ES base item pieces at the cost of reducing their armour/eva/ES values.
So, life characters will get more ways to scale life with gear, not just one puny life prefix.
2. Surgeon prefix on flasks and Pathfinder's "master surgeon" ascendancy node must go away. It's totally imbalanced. It could be replaced with something like "flask gains 1 charge every X seconds" (X most probably varies from 5 to 10). Master Surgeon should be replaced with something like "you gain 1 flask charge every X seconds if you've hit recently" (X should be 2-3). Then, you may add a bit of power to Pathfinder, if she gets too weak after those changes.
Maintaining even the most powerful flask all the time in boss fight is too powerful. Flasks werent designed to be used like that.
3. "double-dipping" for DoTs must go away. DoTs should be increased on with increments, that dont affect base damage type cause them (e.g. poison from physical damage should be increased by chaos damage increase, but poison from chaos damage - dont).
4. Damage done by various skills should be brought in line with each other. AND I MEAN THAT! It's very simple to calculate, that DPS from Ancestral Warchief is much hgher that from Ancestral Protector. It's very easy to calculate, that many AoE abilies have the same or greater damage, than single-target ones. AoE abilities should deal 2-5 times less damage that single-target ones, depending on AoE. The list of abilities is to vast to put it here, but i think we all know what skills should be rebalanced.
5. Insane multiplicative damage scaling from various map mods should go away. Really, it's isnt even fun when enemy's damage scales up by factor of 3-5 total. Solution? Replace them with "additive" damage mods, so enemy damage will be under control. Also, map's mod system could be changed so let's say, prefixes will increase enemy "offensive" stats (or reduce player's defences), while suffixes increase enemy's "defensive" stats (or reduce player's offence). So, only 3 "damage mod can be on the map, and that's far easier to control. Also, the pack size mod should go away, and be replaced with straight "+X% experience gained" bonus.
6. Experience bonus for slaying map boss should be increased by a factor of 100-1000, or something like that. Boss should earn ~20-30% of total experince gained in map, not ~0.03%.
7. Instant logout must go away from all zones except towns and hideouts. If you logout, your character stays in game for 5-10 seconds, and only then disconnects. Surrounded by enemies? Your trouble! Game shouldnt be balanced around instant log-out, it turns hardcore into a joke.
I dont understand that. So you claim balancing team cant just multiply few numbers and see what result will be? Also, there isnt so much of exponential scaling in PoE to claim that it's the main source of imbalance.
If you think that fixing current balance in PoE is a VERY hard task, i'm going to dissapoint you with few simple suggestions:
1. Add few more life mods ("X% increased life, hybrid "+X life and stun recovery"), and add "+X life" implicit to few armour/evasion/ES base item pieces at the cost of reducing their armour/eva/ES values.
So, life characters will get more ways to scale life with gear, not just one puny life prefix.
2. Surgeon prefix on flasks and Pathfinder's "master surgeon" ascendancy node must go away. It's totally imbalanced. It could be replaced with something like "flask gains 1 charge every X seconds" (X most probably varies from 5 to 10). Master Surgeon should be replaced with something like "you gain 1 flask charge every X seconds if you've hit recently" (X should be 2-3). Then, you may add a bit of power to Pathfinder, if she gets too weak after those changes.
Maintaining even the most powerful flask all the time in boss fight is too powerful. Flasks werent designed to be used like that.
3. "double-dipping" for DoTs must go away. DoTs should be increased on with increments, that dont affect base damage type cause them (e.g. poison from physical damage should be increased by chaos damage increase, but poison from chaos damage - dont).
4. Damage done by various skills should be brought in line with each other. AND I MEAN THAT! It's very simple to calculate, that DPS from Ancestral Warchief is much hgher that from Ancestral Protector. It's very easy to calculate, that many AoE abilies have the same or greater damage, than single-target ones. AoE abilities should deal 2-5 times less damage that single-target ones, depending on AoE. The list of abilities is to vast to put it here, but i think we all know what skills should be rebalanced.
5. Insane multiplicative damage scaling from various map mods should go away. Really, it's isnt even fun when enemy's damage scales up by factor of 3-5 total. Solution? Replace them with "additive" damage mods, so enemy damage will be under control. Also, map's mod system could be changed so let's say, prefixes will increase enemy "offensive" stats (or reduce player's defences), while suffixes increase enemy's "defensive" stats (or reduce player's offence). So, only 3 "damage mod can be on the map, and that's far easier to control. Also, the pack size mod should go away, and be replaced with straight "+X% experience gained" bonus.
6. Experience bonus for slaying map boss should be increased by a factor of 100-1000, or something like that. Boss should earn ~20-30% of total experince gained in map, not ~0.03%.
7. Instant logout must go away from all zones except towns and hideouts. If you logout, your character stays in game for 5-10 seconds, and only then disconnects. Surrounded by enemies? Your trouble! Game shouldnt be balanced around instant log-out, it turns hardcore into a joke.
And i can continue the list...
First off, ascendancy's do a bit to create class/character identity, but nothing that impacts balancing the game profoundly.
It's simply one of the assets in the balance-team's work kit.
You make it sound like i cant play a spark ranger, or a spellcaster marauder because of ascendancy's (which is what locking down character identity means and allows strict balancing between one another)
And sure, some of your suggestions sound reasonable, but then you allow a few hundred thousand of people to fiddle with them and most likely exploit new loop-holes your unaware off or didn't think about.
As far as skill balancing is concerned, this game is competitive which is why they force meta's, so the people into the "meta" game can exploit the fuck out of that if they are "smart" enough.
What happens currently is that people not playing the meta also wanna run around acting as if they are competing. That doesn't mean i like the fact skills are purposefully dis-balanced and some simply forgotten because they are out-dated, but that's how the cookie crumbles and that cookie delivers a lot of $$ to GGG in form of free PR and players via streamers etc.
Pretty sure if all of your changes where to "happen" the game would still be considered unbalanced.
Peace,
-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
PoE is not a competitive game at all. Let's just be frank and honest. GGG treats it like one, but in truth it's not. The only 'competitive' part are the races.
And there's nothing smart about playing meta, it's pretty obvious at this point what will be broken based on patch notes alone. We all knew the Juggernaut was going to be ridiculously broken with Mjoll builds, and lo and behold, it was.
Last edited by allbusiness on Nov 27, 2016, 10:42:25 PM
PoE is not a competitive game at all. Let's just be frank and honest. GGG treats it like one, but in truth it's not. The only 'competitive' part are the races.
Well what else would be competitive but from the races + temporary league's ladder ( which is a race also ) ?
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
PoE is not a competitive game at all. Let's just be frank and honest. GGG treats it like one, but in truth it's not. The only 'competitive' part are the races.
If you don't play SSF PoE is absolutely competitive. To give an recent example; early Starforge's sold for over 70ex. I can't remember when I got mine but I paid 65ex and that was a great price at the time. Right now there are a handful available for under 10ex. There were tangible incentives/rewards for getting Starforge's into the market early. How is that not competition?
That's just one example. The competitive nature of PoE is even more profound during the early days of a new league.
IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde
It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle.
You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta.
Last edited by Ashen_Shugar_IV on Nov 28, 2016, 1:42:50 AM
And sure, some of your suggestions sound reasonable, but then you allow a few hundred thousand of people to fiddle with them and most likely exploit new loop-holes your unaware off or didn't think about.
As far as skill balancing is concerned, this game is competitive which is why they force meta's, so the people into the "meta" game can exploit the fuck out of that if they are "smart" enough.
What happens currently is that people not playing the meta also wanna run around acting as if they are competing. That doesn't mean i like the fact skills are purposefully dis-balanced and some simply forgotten because they are out-dated, but that's how the cookie crumbles and that cookie delivers a lot of $$ to GGG in form of free PR and players via streamers etc.
Pretty sure if all of your changes where to "happen" the game would still be considered unbalanced.
Peace,
-Boem-
PoE is online game. It's actually a HUGE bonus for balancing team. They have access to all data they may need - how "good" gear most players have access to, what build they're using, and so on. If your game is offline, you cant balance it properly due to lack of data...
My suggestions are first few steps into a balanced game's direction. With them, game still may be unbalanced, of course. But with few other changes and with changing some numbers, it will be much more balanced than now, and no less enjoyable.
You cant reach balance when life has almost no scaling from gear. HP pool is one of the most important stats in any RPG/ARPG, and it MUST scale properly with gear. When 5c and 5exa items provide same HP pool for life (but not for ES), i feel nothing but frustration when playing life.
You cant reach balance when even the most powerful can be maintained all the time even in boss fight. Well, you can - wuth nerfing flasks to the ground - but then, they will be close to useless when not used permanently. And it hurts diversity. "Weak" flasks (ones that consume little charges and last long) may still have 100% uptime, it's OK. But not ones lke Taste of Hate or Vinktar.
Also, you cant reach balance with double-dipping, with multiplicative damage scaling with so many map mods, with instant leech based on damage, instant escape from danger, and so on.
Make steps into right direction and follow that path, and with some time and intent, decent balance will be achieved. Just look at DoTA2 as an example. How imbalanced it was 0.1, 1, 2 years ago, and how it's now!
^
No, Life should not scale like ES does, ES is supposed to be different from life.
There are other things in the game that screw up the ES/life balance enough, no need to turn even more ES into "blue life".
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
there is a balance team? son of a bitch i owe my friend 100 dollars now.
Devourers with hit scan that shit was funny as hell
Still failing to solve "The Riddle of Melee" 4.0 HYPE!!!
SILLY BITCH...THE EAGLES ARE COMING!!!
THE EAGLES!!! (bleeds out from a wound to the gut)
the eagles...are...coming...(coughs)...the eagles...
Last edited by bionicg2040 on Nov 28, 2016, 7:22:08 AM
