"Melee Ranged" Gem Tag?
" I do. I just feel that the way GGG is changing things, is the lazy way out. Making all melee ranged is treating the symptoms - not the cause. But I can wait for 3.0 and see how the changes to weapon range and targeting affect the game. But still, the main problem is that melee defenses for close combat fighting isn't where it should be. Again; I can live with a sub par clearspeed. But they need to compensate on other areas; defenses. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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" The problem is finding a simple and effective way of improving melee defenses without ranged and pseudo-melee benefiting. If they just flat buffed armor, evasion, and life by 10% across the board that only makes the already "too good" builds even worse unless they're pure ES builds, in fact that could give purpose to hybridizing with such a buff and make ES even stronger. How would a simple gem tag be more complex, or require a lot of reworking, or time, or resources? I imagine it would be a fairly simple implementation for them by now to add a gem tag. Once added, they can test ideas to see what can be done with it to improve what needs to be improved. If melee defenses are just that poor, requiring Melee Ranged to be a factor to generate additional defenses would be a pretty simple solution. You wouldn't need a convoluted explanation of your node ideas. "All melee damage is increased 50%. Can only use Melee Ranged skills directly." is a lot simpler to implement and explain than "All melee damage is increased 50%. Cannot use any spell, projectile, or Area of Effect skill except Melee Splash support." Not only can you reuse the mechanic of the Melee Ranged tag, it's a clean and easy to understand mechanic that won't require a paragraph of exceptions for effectively the same result or intention. |
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Or you could remove the melee tag from skills (or the part of them) that are not really melee and balance their damage and aoe/range accordingly. Or something like Wild Strike - the actual melee part where you hit an enemy with your weapon is benefiting from melee bonuses unlike the projectile/aoe/chaining part of the skill.
✠ ✠ Last edited by wiggin on Nov 25, 2016, 9:04:14 AM
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Wouldn't you call it Ranged Melee? 1) it rolls off the tongue better and 2) It is more logical since you are using a melee weapon as a ranged weapon.
Computer specifications: Windows 10 Pro x64 | AMD Ryzen 5800X3D | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | MSI Geforce 1070Ti Gamer | Corsair AX 760watt PSU | Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD & WD Black FZEX HDD Last edited by Nicholas_Steel on Nov 25, 2016, 9:40:00 AM
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This thread is crazy. The devs would really need to bring actually ranged attacks and spells in line before talking about doing anything to nerf melee attacks.
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" Huh? This thread is suggesting a tag for specifically melee ranged skills like Dual Strike or Heavy Strike in which you must physically walk up to and smack a bitch to make work unlike just shift clicking BV or some such. A "Ranged Melee" tag would just make things more complicated in my opinion, "Melee Ranged" or "True Melee" or "CQC (Close Quarters Combat)" tag would be very focused and specific. How would you prevent Ranged Melee from benefiting from support gems and passives intended solely for true melee? Much simpler this way, no? " That wouldn't work because then those skills lose out on access to numerous supports. The problem isn't so much that these builds can be strong, it's that "true" melee builds gain no benefit for being in actual CQC. " When did I ever suggest nerfing melee? This thread is about introducing a new mechanic to make it much easier and simpler for the devs to buff melee without making other builds stronger. If you introduced support gems or passives that required or triggered off of skills specifically Melee Ranged you wouldn't be able to directly or indirectly buff all those ranged builds and skills and in fact could more easily nerf them without as much risk of nerfing true melee. My first character ever is a duelist using viper strike and dual strike and I aim to keep it that way rather than switch to BV or other such pseudo-melee. |
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"Melee Ranged" sounds like you are using ranged weaponry in melee combat. "Ranged Melee" sounds like you are using melee weaponry to attack from a distance. The latter sounds more sensible if you want to distinguish proper melee from using melee weaponry at a distance.
Computer specifications: Windows 10 Pro x64 | AMD Ryzen 5800X3D | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | MSI Geforce 1070Ti Gamer | Corsair AX 760watt PSU | Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD & WD Black FZEX HDD Last edited by Nicholas_Steel on Nov 26, 2016, 2:09:02 AM
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" That's how they treat Wild Strike (and maybe some oether skills which I do not remember), the actual close combat part of the skill benefits from the melee tag (the skill has melee tag), the rest of the skill does not (those aoe things flying out of a struck monster). As for some skills not being powerful and losing even more damage, that's where rebalancing steps in, as I said. Even simple damage buff would shift balance the right way, while the not-so melee part of attacks would not benefit from the melee tag, the actual melee would, hence reward you from being in close combat. Perhaps anything out of your weapon range should not be considered melee? Since, you know, it's not in your weapon range and cannot be hit for that one simple reason that your melee weapon cannot reach far enoug. Not that new tag would be so terrible, but utilizing existing mechanics might achieve very similar result without introducing new complex system. ✠ ✠
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" Melee Ranged, as in within the range of a melee weapon. Ranged Melee would be melee based skills capable of hitting from range. If you're looking for a clearer tag, True Melee or CQC would suffice. " Part of true melee's problem isn't so much clear speed as it is they are not rewarded for being in melee, there is no benefit to it, it is only a detriment. Damage numbers are secondary to the real issue and that is true melee lacks staying power to clear properly. In no way would this be a complex system. It'd be very straight forward. This skill is tagged "Melee Ranged" and so is this support gem. It's no more complex than combining a Projectile skill with a Projectile support. With "True" melee separated into its own category essentially, GGG would suddenly have a lot of options to address its issues very directly without much risk of unintentionally buffing other builds. Simply having a passive radius of melee range that kicks in certain mechanics would be able to benefit every other build. Passives and support gems would give True Melee the benefits it needs to be viable and worth it. |
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Additional gems and passives to consider:
Passive, Hold the Line - Taunted enemies do 10% reduced damage to you and take 5% more damage from party members per member. Can only use Melee Ranged offensive skills directly. (Offensive translates to any skill that causes direct damage so attack totems would be included in the restricted skills for example) Active, Taunting Strike - Damages the target for x%+nPerLvl and taunts the enemy for 4 seconds. Taunting an enemy in this manner also reduces the damage they do to you by 10% while stationary. 6 second cooldown can be bypassed by expending an Endurance charge. Cannot be evaded. Quality increases length of taunt. Passive/Support, Crushing Blows - Melee Ranged attacks cause 50%+nPerLvl more damage. Critical Multiplier for support skills is reduced to 100% (crits add no extra damage). Quality increases accuracy for the gem. CB passive would not stack with support gem. Some special item mods that may also be beneficial: Berserk - Melee Ranged attacks hit twice per use. Taunting Strike - Melee Ranged attacks apply Taunting Strike detailed above. Crushing Blows - Melee Ranged attacks are now Crushing Blows. |
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