Getting a shavs makes me sad.

Never dropped, bought one 6-socket and linked it myself. That's the GGG way...

"

Slayer_Tip wrote:

So, does anyone else remember pre-2.0 when shavs were 60-80 ex?

Weren't those the best times? when the market was actually decent?

I'm in standard doing atziri runs coz, why the tittynipple not, i kill the trio, shavs drops, i poe.trade it, and its literally 4 ex... like, thats... idk math, but thats really shit...

:/ this makes me sad... and somewhat infuriating because, GGG had to make the questionable decision of "durrrr we should 4x the drop rate of everything, because that's what everyone wanted!!!"

ugh...

This is gonna make me really upset for a while... :(

Absolutely hated it when it was so stupidly rare. You either had to get retarded lucky, or no-life to no end in order to go low-life. I really hope these times never come back.

Items like Shavs are build-enabling, and these should never be that rare. Shavs is still quite expensive - add the linking cost, and you have quite costly chest.

Also - getting 4ex in one drop feels bad...? What?

"

Perq wrote:

"

Slayer_Tip wrote:

So, does anyone else remember pre-2.0 when shavs were 60-80 ex?

Weren't those the best times? when the market was actually decent?

I'm in standard doing atziri runs coz, why the tittynipple not, i kill the trio, shavs drops, i poe.trade it, and its literally 4 ex... like, thats... idk math, but thats really shit...

:/ this makes me sad... and somewhat infuriating because, GGG had to make the questionable decision of "durrrr we should 4x the drop rate of everything, because that's what everyone wanted!!!"

ugh...

This is gonna make me really upset for a while... :(

Absolutely hated it when it was so stupidly rare. You either had to get retarded lucky, or no-life to no end in order to go low-life. I really hope these times never come back.

Items like Shavs are build-enabling, and these should never be that rare. Shavs is still quite expensive - add the linking cost, and you have quite costly chest.

Also - getting 4ex in one drop feels bad...? What?

Seeing an item drop and realizing that its less then a weeks worth of grind time in value, (like days at most in all actuality) is actually a quite empty feeling. I just happened to be lucky to get my shavs to drop in perandus of all leagues, where it was worth even less then his 4ex value in standard.


While shavs is a "build enabler" it has a "budget version" so having it be rarer and more valuable, would force people to think hard about when they would go low life or at least have to save up a bit more.


I remember spending 80 ex on an unlinked shavs back in the day, I then dumped a crap ton of currency into trying to 6 link it to no avail, luckly I was able to make a trade for an item that had no value to me for someone to link my shavs easily for me.

Still long gone is the ways to actually have to invest into making or getting good items, as GGG is clearly pushing the game in a direction where accessibility is more important then longevity. People complain that GGG balances the game around the 1% or whatever, but in all actuality if you don't balance your game around what is popular or strong, then what is left to play for players that complete the highest level of content and even go as far as cheesing various content down with a certain spec.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Seeing an item drop and realizing that its less then a weeks worth of grind time in value, (like days at most in all actuality) is actually a quite empty feeling. I just happened to be lucky to get my shavs to drop in perandus of all leagues, where it was worth even less then his 4ex value in standard.


While shavs is a "build enabler" it has a "budget version" so having it be rarer and more valuable, would force people to think hard about when they would go low life or at least have to save up a bit more.


I remember spending 80 ex on an unlinked shavs back in the day, I then dumped a crap ton of currency into trying to 6 link it to no avail, luckly I was able to make a trade for an item that had no value to me for someone to link my shavs easily for me.

Still long gone is the ways to actually have to invest into making or getting good items, as GGG is clearly pushing the game in a direction where accessibility is more important then longevity. People complain that GGG balances the game around the 1% or whatever, but in all actuality if you don't balance your game around what is popular or strong, then what is left to play for players that complete the highest level of content and even go as far as cheesing various content down with a certain spec.

This is where I wonder why people don't think a compromise could have been made. In my personal view, yeah, 60-80 ex unlinked was ridiculous pricing and rarity reflecting the price. But drop rates that would have revolved around something like 20 ex once prices balanced out in temp leagues seems like a fair tradeoff for low life builds being better than CI in most cases. And this could have gone for multiple uniques. Soul taker wouldn't have to have been nerfed utility wise, just not so commonly dropped and so on.

I see a few people arguing that build enabling uniques shouldn't be hidden by massive costs or low drops rates, particularly for SSF people. But I don't see anything wrong with build enabling uniques being drop locked/ price locked as long as the build is more powerful in general, it deserves to be. You earned it one way or another. As for SSF specifically, as somebody who play a majority of temp leagues SSF and was almost entirely SSF back when I only played standard, why the hell would you aim to make a build that you don't have the items for already? I look at people like Anuhart and how builds happen because you either have everything saved up from drops while doing builds you could do at the time while waiting for those rarer build enablers to show up so other builds are finally possible.

I just feel that some people that distinctly hate trade try to use SSF as an excuse for lower drop rates so all builds have equal accessibility specifically to make them happy. The problem is going SSF is going against GGG's entire design, regardless of how much you dislike trade, it was meant to be part of typical gameplay. Yes I do enjoy that the T1 uniques are a bit more common, no it isn't fun that they are only worth a few days of dried lake farming chaos recipe now. I want drops that make me go "Yeah, three weeks worth of farming out of a random drop. Lucky me!" Instead I get a high ticket item that Neversink's filter give a white background and all I can think is "cool" and move on with my day unless it is Skyforth or a mirror. There is no strong reward in the skinner box anymore other than the fact that I enjoy playing this game in and of itself (and I am still stuck with playing this game almost exclusively for the next few years until I can afford a better computer. But that is all the more reason I find intrinsic value of playing this game).

"

PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

This is where I wonder why people don't think a compromise could have been made. In my personal view, yeah, 60-80 ex unlinked was ridiculous pricing and rarity reflecting the price. But drop rates that would have revolved around something like 20 ex once prices balanced out in temp leagues seems like a fair tradeoff for low life builds being better than CI in most cases. And this could have gone for multiple uniques. Soul taker wouldn't have to have been nerfed utility wise, just not so commonly dropped and so on.

I see a few people arguing that build enabling uniques shouldn't be hidden by massive costs or low drops rates, particularly for SSF people. But I don't see anything wrong with build enabling uniques being drop locked/ price locked as long as the build is more powerful in general, it deserves to be. You earned it one way or another. As for SSF specifically, as somebody who play a majority of temp leagues SSF and was almost entirely SSF back when I only played standard, why the hell would you aim to make a build that you don't have the items for already? I look at people like Anuhart and how builds happen because you either have everything saved up from drops while doing builds you could do at the time while waiting for those rarer build enablers to show up so other builds are finally possible.

I just feel that some people that distinctly hate trade try to use SSF as an excuse for lower drop rates so all builds have equal accessibility specifically to make them happy. The problem is going SSF is going against GGG's entire design, regardless of how much you dislike trade, it was meant to be part of typical gameplay. Yes I do enjoy that the T1 uniques are a bit more common, no it isn't fun that they are only worth a few days of dried lake farming chaos recipe now. I want drops that make me go "Yeah, three weeks worth of farming out of a random drop. Lucky me!" Instead I get a high ticket item that Neversink's filter give a white background and all I can think is "cool" and move on with my day unless it is Skyforth or a mirror. There is no strong reward in the skinner box anymore other than the fact that I enjoy playing this game in and of itself (and I am still stuck with playing this game almost exclusively for the next few years until I can afford a better computer. But that is all the more reason I find intrinsic value of playing this game).

Lets not forget they also added stuff like divination cards in conjunction with the increased drop rate of basically uniques across the board. Part of the issue was the amount these were increased by paired with people being able to save up easier to but essentially a fraction of the item.


SSF is a poor excuse, you can't focus the game around an economy and the solo player at the same time, it simply doesn't work. Especially if you want to introduce chase uniques or what not that are things people typically strive to get. Furthermore, the incentive to go low life has actually really decreased in most cases because:

A) it really isn't needed for the damage
B) can get significantly higher effective life pool\surviviability by just going CI.
C) its far cheaper to gear too

Its like there is almost no incentive to go low life, except on support, RF or very very niche builds anymore. Which has a drastic effect on the price or value of what used to be one of the most sought after items in the game.

Currently it sits far below others in value. Lets just throw together some rough estimates from ESC prices.

1) Headhunter, 70-80ex, basically the price of a mirror, good corruption is obviously worth more.
2) Skyforths, 35-40ex, basically the single highest value item that can drop (but we all know it gets chanced far more then it ever can drop.
3) The Harvest 12ex, can get it from a couple of div cards, beyond or perandus.

Then you have a price of an item like shavs at 5ex for non 6 link, 11ish ex for 6 link clean, but various corrupted ones cheaper then that. But the item doesn't drop 6 link, it drops non linked (almost 99.999999% of the time) so its value as a drop is reflected at that.

Whats next a few various league specific items that require div cards? Sorry, but finding and piecing together div cards for items doesn't have nearly the same feeling of having something valueable drop.


I agree with your assessment pretty much spot on about that background with white, ok cool I guess thats 1\80th of the only thing that actually I can put my eyes on. To me I think its crazy that stuff is so easily achievable these days, what happened to actually having to grind for things instead of just increasing the drop rates so much that there are 99+ shavs listed, what happened to actually having to put forth effort and time into making more extreme builds?

Part of the balance issue in this game is that GGG just gives more and more and taking away anything at this point will essentially be fighting tooth and nail. If it wasn't for BV being stupid strong and very similar playstyle to COC we would see far more people complaining that was nerfed as well.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Seeing an item drop and realizing that its less then a weeks worth of grind time in value, (like days at most in all actuality) is actually a quite empty feeling. I just happened to be lucky to get my shavs to drop in perandus of all leagues, where it was worth even less then his 4ex value in standard.


While shavs is a "build enabler" it has a "budget version" so having it be rarer and more valuable, would force people to think hard about when they would go low life or at least have to save up a bit more.


I remember spending 80 ex on an unlinked shavs back in the day, I then dumped a crap ton of currency into trying to 6 link it to no avail, luckly I was able to make a trade for an item that had no value to me for someone to link my shavs easily for me.

Still long gone is the ways to actually have to invest into making or getting good items, as GGG is clearly pushing the game in a direction where accessibility is more important then longevity. People complain that GGG balances the game around the 1% or whatever, but in all actuality if you don't balance your game around what is popular or strong, then what is left to play for players that complete the highest level of content and even go as far as cheesing various content down with a certain spec.

You ignore one important bit - it is a week worth of grind for you and me. For most people it is far more. Personally, I never bothered with Shavs, when it was at 80ex price point. This item didn't exist for me. And I never got one to drop in 3,5k hours I played.

"

Perq wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Seeing an item drop and realizing that its less then a weeks worth of grind time in value, (like days at most in all actuality) is actually a quite empty feeling. I just happened to be lucky to get my shavs to drop in perandus of all leagues, where it was worth even less then his 4ex value in standard.


While shavs is a "build enabler" it has a "budget version" so having it be rarer and more valuable, would force people to think hard about when they would go low life or at least have to save up a bit more.


I remember spending 80 ex on an unlinked shavs back in the day, I then dumped a crap ton of currency into trying to 6 link it to no avail, luckly I was able to make a trade for an item that had no value to me for someone to link my shavs easily for me.

Still long gone is the ways to actually have to invest into making or getting good items, as GGG is clearly pushing the game in a direction where accessibility is more important then longevity. People complain that GGG balances the game around the 1% or whatever, but in all actuality if you don't balance your game around what is popular or strong, then what is left to play for players that complete the highest level of content and even go as far as cheesing various content down with a certain spec.

You ignore one important bit - it is a week worth of grind for you and me. For most people it is far more. Personally, I never bothered with Shavs, when it was at 80ex price point. This item didn't exist for me. And I never got one to drop in 3,5k hours I played.

Probably less for you and me, but why can't there be items in the game that require that much farming, given leagues are 3 months long that is more then enough time if people are a bit slower at building wealth to work towards a goal. Im not saying 80ex is the best price point but 4-5 ex is laughable really given the rarity of the item itself.

Everyone should know that the economy in a permanent league will crumble, no matter if the drop rates of items are buffed by "4x". several years of players farming, bots farming and so in, results in A LOT of items.

But the main factor here, is probably not the item itself or its availability.

When the whole game can be beat in "regular gear" - in addition to a couple of unique flask, everything else becomes a little... Uninteresting? Unneeded? Unwanted?

"

Phrazz wrote:

Everyone should know that the economy in a permanent league will crumble, no matter if the drop rates of items are buffed by "4x". several years of players farming, bots farming and so in, results in A LOT of items.

But the main factor here, is probably not the item itself or its availability.

When the whole game can be beat in "regular gear" - in addition to a couple of unique flask, everything else becomes a little... Uninteresting? Unneeded? Unwanted?

So you think the game should be only be beatable with shavs?

Thats would be a ridiculous statement considering the fact that there are alot of people who enjoy playing e.g. melee/life and have tremendous disadvantages since the beginning already anyway.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Probably less for you and me, but why can't there be items in the game that require that much farming, given leagues are 3 months long that is more then enough time if people are a bit slower at building wealth to work towards a goal. Im not saying 80ex is the best price point but 4-5 ex is laughable really given the rarity of the item itself.

Well, yes, could probably be a little more expensive (around 8ex, maybe?), but 80ex is way, waaaaay too much. I will agree that there is too much stuff dropping nowadays (even tho the general trend of making stuff available is good, overall... it just needs a little fine-tuning). But I still prefer over-saturation than starvation. :P