The Brass Dome Question on Crit Damage.

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Vipermagi wrote:

"Which goes to 352% increased armor for the Brass Dome itself due to Unbreakable."
Unbreakable doubles the base before Increased Armour - it's amazingly strong.
8000 * 3.5 = 28k armour from the Brass Dome alone. :P

Really? I figured Unbreakable was a 100% increase on body armor, not a "doubles base value".

Good God, why are people not doing this? if I had money/fewer builds on my plate I'd do this just to see the ridicu-AR rating you can get here. Get an iron Skin Granite and I bet you could punch clean over 50k no sweat even with a two-hander instead of a shield.

Might mebbe need to actually investigate this, especially with Reckless Defense. I actually have one of those, even if it's not perfect...adjust the tree a bit, slice off some of the honestly unnecessary life bloat thrown on there just to drive the point home to Nath, see what we can do 'bout some deepz...might honestly be something here...

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Vipermagi wrote:

Because it says just as little. It's a different number to say (pretty much) the same thing.

I prefer converting to eHP change so that it can be slightly more effectively compared against increases to buffer, like increased maximum Life or more Energy Shield. Against a single Hit of a given type and/or category, mitigation of same eHP bonus tends to be equal to or better than the equivalent buffer bonus (better when flat things come into play - relative effect of flat life regeneration, for example from Stone Golem, is the most common example).

However, buffer increases are usually more generalized, so can be more useful even with a lower x% value.

I'm probably biased because I get a lot of people in game asking me about Belly of the Beast and Kaom's Heart vs other options like Lightning Coil. To me, it's disingenuous to say that Lightning Coil grants 22.5% approximate mitigation where Kaom's Heart grants 25% more Life and leave it at that. X% more is the most convenient universal measure - we use it for damage - so why not apply it to defenses as well? In this case it would be more accurate to say LC grants 29% more EHP, but only against physical Hits. This allows to weigh the options on a more level playing field - if Belly of the Beast granted 9 to 10% more Life to a build, it would be more intuitive to say "One LC is like wearing 3 BotBs... but ONLY against Physical Hits. Against other forms of damage, it is like wearing 0.6 BotB" (due to flat Life on LC)

For people who are just comparing this less damage, to that less damage, to some other less damage, then yeah, converting to EHP is pointless. But when you compare less damage to more buffer - it can be disingenuous, getting worse the higher your less damage goes (50% less is a whopping 100% more EHP - if there were +50% universal mitigation you don't want to get fooled into picking +75% universal buffer instead).

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1453R wrote:

Good God, why are people not doing this? if I had money/fewer builds on my plate I'd do this just to see the ridicu-AR rating you can get here. Get an iron Skin Granite and I bet you could punch clean over 50k no sweat even with a two-hander instead of a shield.

For my build the reason was:
-28k AR + 8 ECs already trivializes a ton of physical damage - I trollposted in GD about facetanking full charges Izaro and not even losing half health, with only 6k life and wearing an Abyssus
-the EC path (4 asc pts) includes reduced elemental damage taken, which Armour will never help with
-I'm a DPS addict, so Accuracy path was essential (2 asc pts)
-My Jugg was originally designed as a lab runner and I've gotten way too used to being practically immune to Chill, Freeze, and Temporal Chains (2 asc pts)

So for my build, there was just no justification. Other Asc pts granted more value - though lower numbers perhaps, they apply more universally.

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1453R wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

"Which goes to 352% increased armor for the Brass Dome itself due to Unbreakable."
Unbreakable doubles the base before Increased Armour - it's amazingly strong.
8000 * 3.5 = 28k armour from the Brass Dome alone. :P

Really? I figured Unbreakable was a 100% increase on body armor, not a "doubles base value".

Good God, why are people not doing this? if I had money/fewer builds on my plate I'd do this just to see the ridicu-AR rating you can get here. Get an iron Skin Granite and I bet you could punch clean over 50k no sweat even with a two-hander instead of a shield.

Might mebbe need to actually investigate this, especially with Reckless Defense. I actually have one of those, even if it's not perfect...adjust the tree a bit, slice off some of the honestly unnecessary life bloat thrown on there just to drive the point home to Nath, see what we can do 'bout some deepz...might honestly be something here...

No, it doubles the armor value of your chest piece. Think of it as flat armor rather than %armor, which is better when considering passives and quality on gear. Not too sure when the Jugger's double applies though.

While an intriguing option, I wouldn't play as a Juggernaut even if I was using Brass Dome. I'd rather go for a Berserker due to War Bringer. No need for life flasks any longer, as warcries would replace and surpass them. All flasks would be oriented towards mitigation. The Juggernaut would lose a support gem for leech on spells, or would have lower amounts of leech compared to the Berserker while having fewer flask options.

I'm surprised Vipermagi thinks 18k is better than 11k. 11k without crit damage as opposed to 18k with. I'll take the 11k every time.

Sorry if I'm going into too much offtopic, but I've noticed you guys are quite passionate and knowledgable about the Juggernaut ascendancy and overall character defenses.

Would you say that a very good rare chest has now become useless because of Brass Dome? About 2 leagues ago I managed to acquire an extremely good (for my standards) rare, which I've not yet 6linked. And with the arrival of BD I've been questioning if it is even worth it to pursue that goal anymore. I wanted to use it to make my attack based jugger more tanky (I've been using a 600armor 6link so far), nothing too special.

This is the aforemetioned piece:

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ivkoto77777 wrote:

Would you say that a very good rare chest has now become useless because of Brass Dome?

Depends, you can get a life roll on a rare but crit cancellation on BD trumps that, a rare can also have high reses but can never get the kind of armor rating BD has.

So it's a matter of what you need, if you're running a blocker or using a lot of uniques in other slots so you can't get reses easily you'd still prefer a good rare.

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raics wrote:

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ivkoto77777 wrote:

Would you say that a very good rare chest has now become useless because of Brass Dome?

Depends, you can get a life roll on a rare but crit cancellation on BD trumps that, a rare can also have high reses but can never get the kind of armor rating BD has.

So it's a matter of what you need, if you're running a blocker or using a lot of uniques in other slots so you can't get reses easily you'd still prefer a good rare.

My next planned build is a duel wield crit swords jugger (probably using facebreakers and maybe even abyssus for the dps), so the flat life rolls are already quite low compared to a shield using character. Would you pick a Brass Dome for such a setup over a 120 flat life + some res rare?

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ivkoto77777 wrote:

My next planned build is a duel wield crit swords jugger (probably using facebreakers and maybe even abyssus for the dps), so the flat life rolls are already quite low compared to a shield using character. Would you pick a Brass Dome for such a setup over a 120 flat life + some res rare?

On a jugger - any day of the week except sunday, 8k base armor is way too juicy to skip.

Hmmm... So basically, 5.5ex down the drain :/