Evasion/Dodge/Raider improvements

"
Fruz wrote:
"
sagiterios wrote:
Armor directly reduces the incoming damage, effectively amplifying how much health you do have.

Only for maybe 90%+ of builds, armour does basically nothing against those big hits, you need to invest a real lot into it for it to mean something in this case, and to use granite.

What makes evasion feel squishy is the amount of physical spells that always get added to the game ....



You can amplify how good armor is versus physical hits such as with granite, basalt, endurance charges, and damage reduction items like taste of hate, lightning coil, etc.


They effectively are much better for armor builds especially since armor builds typically have a higher life buffer anyways. For Evasion, those items merely prevent you from getting one shot in most cases, and even now adays, it's not enough. Good example is that technically you can build a character with enough armor and damage reduction to eat a Shadow Vaal Slam (tested it) if you're crazy enough, but you can never do the same as an Evasion character. Although it's a telegraphed attack and you should dodge it, there are things in the game now adays under the right circumstances that do pretty close to the same amount of damage but much quicker.


Out of the three major defensive archetypes in the game (Evasion/ES/Armor), Evasion is pretty much hot garbage. The only reason why it has any viability is because Bow builds in general for the longest time were insanely broken.
Last edited by allbusiness on Sep 26, 2016, 7:18:56 AM
Evasion is definitely NOT hot garbage, stop it with the urban legend already.
Evasion's weakness is physical spell, basically.

Evasion has access to basalt all the same, the ffectivness is the same since the armour is calculated before the flask is applied.
Same for ligthning coil.
Same for ToH.
Same for endurance charges, unless you want to have all of them ( in which case it will be much more difficult yes ).

Granite makes armour effective over evasion based builds obviously, but that's it.

Heavy Armour builds have an easier access to this, as said before, that's a true thing, and that's where the problem is imho.

Now can you take hits that are supposedly OHKO with very heavy armour investments ?
Maybe.
Is that smart ?
Hell no, do that with nasty map mods and you are dead all the same.

By the way, I would be curious about doing this with an eva character using coil + arctic armour + basalt + 3 endurance charges.


And there are only 2 archetypes for prrimary defenses : life or ES.
Then after than you have evasion / armour / block / dodge.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Sep 26, 2016, 8:37:28 AM
Here is how I make Evasion work: Acro/Phase
Atziris Steps
Perma Vaal Grace with sacrificial harvest jewels
Arctic Armor
Fortify
Quartz Flask
Enfeeble Aura
15k+ Evasion

This combined with about 6k life seems to be whats needed for evasion based characters to really be able to survive. This info all comes from experience, I pretty much have focused on making Evasion work since i started playing this game. Some people ask why I use enfeeble as an aura since its a huge opportunity cost if you would rather run a dps aura, but doing so allows me to focus on my vaal grace timers and manual positioning better.

So yeah, this is what I needed to make Evasion work, if you can add in a Taste of Hate flask even better.

The real trick is getting all of that and still having room for damage on the tree and gem slots in your gear.
^
No lightning coil ?
Or even belly ?
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Sep 26, 2016, 9:08:12 AM
"
Fruz wrote:
No it doesn't.

ES is a buffer.
Evasion is a secondary defense, the second layer.

It's like comparing life and armour.


Does your plain white base gear have stats other than es or Evason or armor on them?

Life is a fucking gear affix, not a gear inherent stat.

Jesus fucking Christ it's like trying to explain why animals drink water with this guy
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982 on Sep 26, 2016, 10:22:09 AM
"
Legatus1982 wrote:
"
Fruz wrote:
No it doesn't.

ES is a buffer.
Evasion is a secondary defense, the second layer.

It's like comparing life and armour.


Does your plain white base gear have stats other than es or Evason or armor on them?

Life is a fucking gear affix, not a gear inherent stat.

Jesus fucking Christ it's like trying to explain why animals drink water with this guy

If you were looking for a way to miss the point .....
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Reduce the proc chance of the raider's abilities by 5% and change it to on hit, simple.
Last edited by JusJev on Sep 26, 2016, 10:24:24 AM
"
Fruz wrote:
"
Legatus1982 wrote:
"
Fruz wrote:
No it doesn't.

ES is a buffer.
Evasion is a secondary defense, the second layer.

It's like comparing life and armour.


Does your plain white base gear have stats other than es or Evason or armor on them?

Life is a fucking gear affix, not a gear inherent stat.

Jesus fucking Christ it's like trying to explain why animals drink water with this guy

If you were looking for a way to miss the point .....
No kidding. It's like he's never seen a coral ring or leather belt.

They should remove ES from the defensive category and move it to the same category as life. Change the intelligence based defense from ES into elemental or spell mitigation so it would have the same function armour has for physical hits or evasion has for attacks.
Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com
"
mark1030 wrote:
No kidding. It's like he's never seen a coral ring or leather belt.

They should remove ES from the defensive category and move it to the same category as life. Change the intelligence based defense from ES into elemental or spell mitigation so it would have the same function armour has for physical hits or evasion has for attacks.


Regardless of whether you agree on their function differences or not, life is not the same category as es. Es is the same categorically as ev.

You cannot simultaneous stack ev as well as es, you can only get one or the other or the hybrid piece which comes at the cost of being about 60% of the usual base value.

Whether people decide to completely ignore armor and ev so they can stack es to replace life is more about how useless armor and ev are and less about category. Or more specifically I guess, more about the uselessness of anything besides buffer in this game.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982 on Sep 26, 2016, 5:08:51 PM
"
Fruz wrote:
^
No lightning coil ?
Or even belly ?


No coil for sure because it gives a lower life pool and can cause shocks, Belly is fine but i tend to go for at least 1400 Evasion on a chest and higher res.

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info