Reduce drastically or eliminate completely the exp lose on death

Generally speaking, asking players what they want is never the right way to design a good game.

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666lol666 wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

Gonna play devil's advocate here - If they completely removed the any kind of death penalty in standard only, lolstandardladder, it would be horrendously mocked in the forums but I guarantee 90% of standard players would prefer no penalty at all.

It's more like 99,999999% because in a non-competition softcore league this penalty is as stupid as it can be! The only guys that would make a drama about removing this shit are the temp league guys. Why? No idea, ask them. They all talk that "I don't care about perm leagues" blah blah blah all day but they are the first to scream if anything happens to the perm leagues. rofl

Personally I almost never play standard, if I do its just to test something for fuck off (like playing while watching tv, EleGiggle)


In terms of removing it from standard, I don't want a game that creates an incentive to play in a league that is "subpar", which agree with or don't playing in standard isn't really the best experience you can have. If you make this change you are saying "we think standard should be more casual" and drive people from the temp leagues and into standard just so they can "progress without risk of losing anything" That is my concern with such a suggestion.


You think just because I play temp league that I'm somehow uneffected by the changes that would happen in standard, that simply isn't the case, such a large change would have a negative effect on any sc temp league player and makes a rather large statement about "lamo who fucking cares its sc i shouldn't have to try to avoid death"

Except its not "sc" its called standard, the standard, non perm death version of the game. Not softcore, not easymode, not pussy mode, standard. And people wonder why there is elitism and shit in this game...

I stoped caring for level up the moment I hit 90. It just goes up by itself when I dont watch or it doesnt. Much more enjoyable game when you dont care about such mechanics.
POE is punishing players for trying new stuff and challanging content with is what game exist for - to try and in most cases to fail.
The hardest games in the world make you think "thats impossible", because you will fail 999 times out of 1000 tries, but when you success its real achievement. POE punish you for trying and failing and reward for going easy mode and for abusing unbalanced game mechanics.

The top thigns I would change in POE:
- remove death penalty
- remove life leech (simply OP and anybody who played few games knows that)
- remake whole defense system icluding removal of ES (what for we need 2 stats that work like HP?)
- put more action in the ARPG - more skill from player, less gear/build checks
- work on some ideas to fix long term economy
- remove league system (IMO there should be only standard and HC where leagues should be expansions to them that add new content and competetive challanges for players)

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

Gonna play devil's advocate here - If they completely removed the any kind of death penalty in standard only, lolstandardladder, it would be horrendously mocked in the forums but I guarantee 90% of standard players would prefer no penalty at all.

Leave standard temp leagues with their penalty where the ladder actually matters and let standard players have their carebear league where they can take their shitty snowflake builds as far as they want.

Wrong. Standard players enjoy death penalty even more than others. One of the things that provides the longlivety of standard is the death penalty. If it was gone there would be few motivations to stay there. It is fundamental to PoE that you don't have to play HC in order to have a similar to HC environment. Dying in the upper 90s of levels can lose you days of playtime of a normal player and therefore feels like hc. If this was gone the whole game in standard would be gone.

Standard allows players who don't enjoy to grind 24/7 and play every day in leagues to continue their charackters later.

People like the OP who die in lab or trials usually approach them too early just. It is nothing about standard which you could have seen if you entered his profile which shows a lvl 71 elementalist in leagues. So gtfo with your anti-standard bias :p

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sidtherat wrote:

your highest ever character is lvl 70. since yesterday. you are not qualified to talk about game mechanics (exp penalty). [Removed by Support] you have to accept that. then you can improve. we all have been there. but you - with your attitude will remain there forever as people that blame everything for their mistakes and look for deficiencies in others are never successful.

if you want 'fun' - go farm merciless ledge. youll one shot monsters and (probably) never die.

but the truth is more pathetic - you want the game to be fun (as in shower you with rewards) for nothing. and rewards require effort - you are not there yet.

keep the slack to yourself, you are not there yet for me to care

What is more pathetic is that you talk about a game as if it were something that MATTERED, it dosent, you come with all your BS big talk like this game was your life, if thats the case which i very much suspect it is, then lol.

And also im pretty sure you are one of those totem or something like that spammers that let the game play for itself and then have the balls to tell people they are bad... thats pathetic.

I love how people defending death penalty, putting meaning into something which hasn't meaning with the circular reasoning that if it's in game its intended for best, therefore it is best = because its in game its automatically right = you don't question anything just follow blindly.

It is whiteknights galore but i let you suckers fool yourselves the PoE community is lost, all the good people gone because GGG don't give a fuck about anything but their own way. All the people who wrote the best posts and cared the most - gone because GGG don't listen. Guys you seriously seriously have not a clue.

You that are maining PoE and aren't new here seriously needs a wake up call.

You are rotting in a dank dungeon while there is light outside, games full of life and this shit drains you and keeps you locked down, chained spiritually suppressed.

You honestly don't have a clue most of you nab whitekights from this thread. This thread disgusts me due answers.

[Removed by Support]. This game does not work with current death penalty. It is not a match it leads negative experiences, frustration and people who leave game/give up characters and leave because of it.

There really are not many builds that are comfortable to roll to 100 in. Rest of builds will hit the wall or require an extremely focused/skilled player and/or avoiding challenges and fun just to mindless grind - postphone doing the fun things like atziri's and all that till you ding so you won't lose anything etc etc. This type of behaviour does not benefit the game you can't just have fun when you want.

Also oneshot/overtuned bosses and red maps, endgame encounters that again only are worth it on a few builds. Everything undermines what PoE is about - making a custom build and owning the game with it. Everything and all these retarded stupid systems, in particular the death penalty and the way overpoweredness of bosses paired with too short indications of their one-shot moves. I could forgive these retarded bosses and have fun with them if not because xp penalty. I can't just have fun. Now i need to be smart like this is real life the consequences are real if i choose just to have fun.

Goddamn you have any idea how long i could make this list i could write the neverending wall of all walls, the biggest u ever saw and just with things that are annoying about poe.

Lets go a little..

With construction of game, once you get 1 week into the game the game becomes so boring and unrewarding that it is just bad for yours spirit to play it. The nodes of reward during a day, the times you feel like you are getting somewhere become so rare that everything it just meh-dom and then a few times a day something tiny happens, and once every few days of grind something decent to good happens for you. Then once every lightyear something mega imba happens. Starvation mode. This is not what makes a player happy - the experience is like butter scraped over too much bread, thin and stretched and it doesn't feel full and rich.

Death penalty destroying most builds in game for 95% of players.

Game slave to fears of hackers = desync failprogramming that cost the player experience more than anything else. The player experience is what a game must cultivate, it cannot suffer like this it is wrong. Desynced bosses execution oneshot move on you and you can't react? You can learn to avoid desync prone behaviour but if you just like to actually play the game - jump in and have fun with little regards - the game will do these things on you because it just doesn't work. It is essential that things like bosses and their oneshot moves can be reacted to.

Game simulates real-life rarities with all the mental troubles that follow. Gaming is escapism - the two should not go together in general outside the small crowd who wants that. Gaming should feel abundant and rich - an expansion of fantasy. If you cannot create that experience then you fail at using the power of games.

I honestly think that PoE only works for people who have no expectations of life, are addicted to gaming and stuck in the past, are broken inside and/or just have never tried to live and see what a rich life is like vs one that is barren - because PoE is the fucking barrenmost game i ever wished i could love.

PoE is like the game that is insane "on paper", but when you actually play you come to terms with reality and must be realistic with the thoughts and ideas that occurred in your head.

I both love and hate PoE - and i know my heart well enough to know this is not a healthy relationship i have with PoE and it does not describe how i am with things i love the most either. It is 100% because PoE is full of problems, bad systems and frustrations that cause huge dislike. The PoE burn is real, really than any other game i know and it comes faster too. Other games i generally just lose interest, because PoE is good on "paper" you end up quitting when faced with the frustrating reality of how poe is but you come back because you quit due frustations and the dreams are still alive in your head.

That is the root of the evil nature of games made for addicted players. GGG does not comprehend this, they do not see the torment that results from their control systems. The evil it injects into the world consciousness. That people keep returning to this, GGG considers success because the devs do not know better. Continuing the circle of agony. We all do believe in GGG that is why we come back to see if this time we can reach for our dreams, but again the GGG mindset erects so many barriers for us to reach our dreams that you will be sent away again - broken. But on paper you can reach it so you never really give up.

That is why PoE int he long run becomes a killer of spirit, because it will shackle your dreams and crush them again and again. And GGG has made their business and the whole form of the game on players returning to that. They have left top quality game behind a long while. Thought experiment - lets say that they made it possible to target farm every item in game for anyone and it just took time = everyone could with long enough time farm everything they wanted under their own control. What would happen then? We don't know. They would probably have to figure out a purpose to endgame such as PvP, measurement contests or whatever, but we will never reach it because they have made the business on giving you dreams and making sure you never reach them. I am speaking generally, a very tiny percentage of players do reach their dreams - but for the rest and their common dreams, the dreams that come naturally when you hear of the possibilities in the game, they will be broken sooner or later. Game will generally not satisfy you, but starve you emotionally.

Sadly i fear for this ARPG community to never break the curse until a better game comes - because no matter what, then you cannot deny that PoE is in many ways an amazing game that offers more than any other ARPG ever seen - but you also cannot deny that poe gameplay is rather boring and after a while becomes very frustrating. Yes there will be exceptions and i won't argue that, but if you could take 100000 gamers of D2 and do statistics you will find i am right.

Just too bad the GGG team have very little clue what it means to put player experiences in front of everything else. They seem to be decided the game based on statistics and not heartfelt feeling.

I hope they know that they need to get their shit together if they want to be the best, because they have a mediocre mindset. GGG are like those friends you have that are very intelligent and you like them, but the closer you get to them the more you realize they don't really have insight into life, people and themselves despite being super smart and so are all about material intelligence but lacks spiritual development.

I am sorry i had to write this, but somebody needs to tell the harsh truth.


For this game to get better we need at minimum a serious look at death penalty, endgame boss/red map overscaling, so that players are not broken in their dreams of making this and that cool character work. I don't want to spend 10mins fighting some retarded boss because i do not use one of the OP skills and then die from a oneshot the 1 second i do not focus and lose hours of such focus --> frustration --> character can't progress while some random nubface is using flavor of the month and down it without challenge. The path to 100 can be so long that people don't reach 100 as was the case in D2. I never had a 100 in D2 but it wasn't because i got stopped by a fucking death penalty that kept pissing me off, forcing me to quit the character that still had my dreams attached to it. There is quit it myself when i started dreaming of another character, here PoE you kill my dreams. Funny thing is, among the characters that i could take to 100 playing with slack as i like to, i stopped at 97 because i lost interest in it and moved to something else and was happy with it rather than frustration like most other chars end in!

Current death penalty one of the most poisonous things in this game.

I have tried D3 back in the days of its release and above everything else that is bad about that game is that there is absolutely zero risk in anything you do and no decisions to make about your risk management.

So while all your points have truth in them I still disagree. PoE would instantly be deleted from my disc the day the penalty falls.


What makes hc survival games such as dayz - epoch/overpoch that popular? That you can lose alot while playing.

You talk about a rich life. Maybe you should consider PoE more as a game. I am willing to take high risks in games because it doesn't all matter in the end. A guy with your proposed attitude of a rich life should be able to deal with the risk in games of losing much. Maybe PoE was just made for the category of people you believe to have no rich life?

The world doesn't work like that. Risk = Reward, No Risk = No Reward. Tell your stories a poker player and tell him that he could live a rich life instead. No! The guys want it that way.


Also have you ever been doing sports? There is nothing better than climbing with your snowboard to some untouched side of the mountain and find an own new route of riding down. High risk = High reward.

Look man i always take risks even when i know i will just have a little fun but almost certainly fail.

I don't give a shit i gamble everything like amotherfucker my hard earned whatevers i vaal them, if i get some insanely hard rolled map of the insane bosses i enter just to die to see how hard it is.. I really don't give many fucks. Other games for example.. i bought some items for like 1kdollars and i gambled for just 12.5% chance and broke it entirely etc. If i get whooped by a boss and im on 60% xp chances are i will go in there and lose all 60% before i give up, i really don't give a shit i will not have the game decide for me to avoid fun. I don't give a shit about losing i care about the fun that i have over time - the actual experience.

The end result is for example you can play for days and days and the only small peaks of happiness you get in PoE are when you find a couple of exalts/divines, very rarely a big unique or other super valuable and then every few days you get.. a level which is supposed to be your reward and yet it feels so superficial that it doesn't mean shit to me at all. This is why people generally can get poe over with in like a week or two, because after the early phase there is not much satisfaction left - so what is the point of the eternal grind if the quality of the game isn't that.

I become so numb just like others that i have to kill my expectations and just let the XP come and forget about it because else it turns frustrating because it is one of the only things left to wait for because there is not actually endgame there is only the grind so they have to keep you there = prevent you from reaching the carrot. And then if i don't play one of my few good builds that i know just work, then no matter how cool abilties are it's just never really going to work just because some choices are far inferior to others and only certain ones can "complete" the game.

New atlas and other things can keep yuo occupied a bit as you accomplish small goals there and that satisfy you, but it is only a matter of time before you reach the deep endgame that it just not worth playing really.

Nothing changes then if penalty goes.