"GGG considers it impossible for melee to reach t15 "

I'll reiterate one more time since you apparently can't read.

I've given reasons why ohko is bad design. I'm waiting for you to provide reasons why they are good design.

You have provided 0, so I don't know why you're still arguing.

I'll reiterate one more time since you apparently can't read.

No you actually haven't, you haven't provided anything that we just knocked down because it was either irrelevant, or inconsistent.

This is exactly why there is no point talking to you there.
Thx for the derailment, good job.

Btw, I've said it couple of times, but apparently ... you know ... so :
The think that I was "debunking" is your assumption that the game should be built around the fact that players can have connections issues and that the game should allow them not to die because of this.

"

I've given reasons why ohko is bad design. I'm waiting for you to provide reasons why they are good design.

So I will now... just because I have the time... look through the entire thread and look at what you said and I assume you didn't give arguments. You just said that people might have DCs which has nothing to do with one hit deaths, because it also happens if there are multiple hits.

"

There is nothing well deserved about taking 13k damage in one hit, ever. Period.

That is your first post... and that is hardly an argument. Posting period doesn't usually have any meaning.

"

You show me the universe you live in where momentary disconnects or spikes in latency don't occur, at any time ever. The universe where being instantly hit for 13k damage at once doesn't present the possibility of death for a character, which may have had tens or hundreds of hours dedicated to it, that is 100% certain to be the fault of the user and not the fault of GGG's servers or a momentary holdup in web traffic.

So you brought that argument of DCs and lags, which is pretty obviously not limited to one shots. Basically anything can kill you that way. Guess what happens when I leap slam into a group unable to do anything afterwards... I'm likely dead, not because of oneshots, but because I jumped into a group of enemies losing control afterwards. And honestly they might kill me quicker than the windup of a vaal slam, which is pretty generous. It takes about 2 seconds or so, I might actually stop the time and compare it to other non oneshot mechanics and I guess it kills you slower.

"

So there are now multiple people suggesting that their internet is 100% reliable all the time.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Until you people can agree to the facts of the world we live in we cannot have a real debate on this issue. What you're saying is not the same as reality. Any REASONABLE people who might exist on this forum are welcome to continue.

Then you posted this... which completly ignored all arguments and just claimed that someone said that their Internet is 100% reliable... which nobody claimed.

"

Or just do what I did and accept the occasional bullshit lag-spike death happens - just part of the deal when using bargain internet service.

That was actually the only comment someone made about his internet connection and guess what he said his internet sucks.

"

If 10ms is the difference between life and death again I would call that bad game design.

Again that is not something the game can enforce. If players decide they need to dps until the last second and dodge as late as possible a lag is deadly. That has nothing to do with the described situation.

"

Again based on what logic? What part of including game design that isn't prone to deaths via Internet hiccup is mutually exclusive to good gameplay?

Then you said this. And the simple answer is everything... well to make it simple. Path of Exile without enemies being able to deal damage is pretty terrible. And as soon as they deal damage they are able to kill people due to lag or dcs. There isn't a gameplay way to solve this. You could timeout people after 500ms or 1000ms, which could still be enough to kill them and could be very annoying. Summoners would hate it because a 1 seconds lag might not kill them, but make them lose all spectres. But from a gameplay removing any ability of enemies to kill a player within one second would basically remove most of the damage from the game (or most of the enemies, if we only ever fight one enemy at a time he can deal a bit more damage). But if you run into a bunch of spark skeletons and lag you are dead. Not because they deal incredible damage, but because there are a lot of them in most cases.

"

I'm asking for the game to not contain 13k one shots or similar degen or other such near instant death mechanics in favor of a more strategic gameplay, and using Internet hiccups WHICH HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH AN INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL CONNECTION as one reason why this is stupid design.

A telegraphed skill is actually a very strategic element. Not only does it provide a clear signal of danger it also allows for concentrated damage because you know pretty much when you have to dodge or you dodged before and know the enemy won't move or do anything else after a while. You also didn't say how this strategic gameplay looks like. Because all of this "strategic" gameplay basically means facetanking and leeching. You also didn't say how much damage should be allowed. Because the amount of HP or ES people have propably goes from about 4k HP on some rangers up to 15k ES and even more on CI builds.

"

As well in the same post you AGREE that sometimes Internet can be cut for issues unrelated to personal connection, which only illustrates my entire point.

So then we have this. So you noticed 5 pages that people actually agree that lags or dcs can happen? They said this from the very start. They also said that it might not be oneshots that kill you there. Actually If we would look at all the deaths to DCs I assume a lot of them happened during regular normal gameplay which doesn't include oneshots. I remember that I once died to Cruel Merveil during a DC but that my zombies actually killed her, because I had the waypoint in southern forest. And Merveil doesn't really oneshot, she doesn't even deal that much damage.

"

No my point is that one shots or near one shots are shit game design in an arpg. Lag-which can't be programmed away regardless of whether you think it can-is just one of the many reasons why. You can disagree with that if you want, but what is your logic for that decision? You like the idea that people lose hundreds of hours to a dead mouse battery or a twitching Internet router? If you want to die instantly play fucking call of duty, that shit doesn't belong in an arpg

He never said anything like that. He said that dying to lags or DCs always sucks and its good trying to avoid this. But what he said was that oneshots are far from the only cause of this and I would go even further say that non-oneshot amounts of damage are just as dangerous mostly because the game is full of monsters which don't have to oneshot to kill during lag or DC. Actually I played with the mouse from my brother and it took me about 10 seconds to switch the battery, I assume that is fast, but there is no way I would survive 10 seconds in PoE unless I just close the game. The same goes for the internet router. Depending on the timeout that is used you might actually stand there a few seconds. And again most things will kill you, not all but I would say most bosses would, regardless if they have oneshots.

And after that we are at the point of corrupting blood which is a terrible example, of course you can use flasks with they keyboard so you are safe if your mouse runs out. But thats basically it (although while you switch batteries the guy with corrupting blood will still kill you). There are of course safer builds to DC with. A juggernaut with lots of endurance charges and high regeneration can stand there for a bit longer, since most autoattacks are physical. Any CI build is propably dead within a much shorter time because he is very vulnerable to physical damage.

Also take D3 as an example it pretty much has no oneshots for most of its content this only happens in higher GRs and at that point you can't do much against it, because it is unavoidable damage. But even without huge oneshot attacks like PoE has them and even with the cheat death abilities basically every class has people die to lags or dcs.

Oh lawd, how do I reech deez keeeds?

"

Fruz wrote:

I'll reiterate one more time since you apparently can't read.

No you actually haven't, you haven't provided anything that we just knocked down because it was either irrelevant, or inconsistent.

This is exactly why there is no point talking to you there.
Thx for the derailment, good job.

Btw, I've said it couple of times, but apparently ... you know ... so :
The think that I was "debunking" is your assumption that the game should be built around the fact that players can have connections issues and that the game should allow them not to die because of this.

I wonder how many times you're going to make me repeat myself.

Corrupting blood, freeze. Both potentially lethal mechanics that aren't/don't involve instant OHKO and have several counterplays besides "dont get hit". Both good mechanics.

Vaal smash: counterplay is "dont stand in it". Fine, because it is very easy, until you lag or windows decides to install an update without asking or your wireless keyboard battery dies. Or GGG's server dies or your partner decides to shoot 26 bladefalls at once and your graphics card fries, or maybe you were watching TV as Chris wants you to do while playing POE and forgot to see the windup. Whatever the reason is, I haven't seen one connect in ... idk how long, but you might eat one some day for reasons unforeseen. I have personally died to lag on lab traps twice, both times because I was right-side non-pathfinder tree trying to run lab. Both times were GGG's servers, I know this because POE was the only thing lagging and it had been lagging all day.
I have also died to the touch of god once, it was kind of my fault for being lazy, but I still feel it was fucking dumb to get touched once and die. I've also survive a merciless core malachai smash, which I'm never going to attempt again, but the fact that I saw its damage, it made me scared, and I'm not going back... I like that. If I had died, I'd feel very differently about it, because it is fucking dumb to be at full health, get hit once, and be dead.

So again I've given reasons how enemies can be lethal and not OHKO. I've also given reasons why OHKO is dumb, whether you agree with them or not they are valid reasons.

You on the other hand have provided 0 reasons why OHKO is better than these mechanics. Please provide some (without writing books like emphasy), because until you can perform this simple task, I have no need to bother with you and neither does anyone else.

[Remove by Support] I won't do it, because it's already done.

Also, traps cannot OHKO. It's literally impossible. So if they don't OHKO but can still cause bullshit lag deaths... maybe the issue isn't OHKO?

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

The depth of your ignorance is sufficiently vast that reading less than a wall will not suffice. I won't do it, because it's already done.

Also, traps cannot OHKO. It's literally impossible. So if they don't OHKO but can still cause bullshit lag deaths... maybe the issue isn't OHKO?

Of course, someone's opinion is not yours so they must be ignorant.

Lets not forget after 10 pages you still haven't provided a single reason why OHKO is better than CB or freeze, no nono, it's everyone else's ignorance that is the problem here. Right.
Still waiting for that reason.

Lab traps aren't a one shot, nobody claimed they were, so IDK what you're even going on about. That was a demonstration of how bad GGG's servers are, not examples of OHKO. Over-the-top damage output isn't even the reason people hate traps, either. Your contribution to this thread today rates 0/10.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Lab traps aren't a one shot, nobody claimed they were, so IDK what you're even going on about. That was a demonstration of how bad GGG's servers are, not examples of OHKO. Over-the-top damage output isn't even the reason people hate traps, either. Your contribution to this thread today rates 0/10.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

I have personally died to lag on lab traps twice, both times because I was right-side non-pathfinder tree trying to run lab. Both times were GGG's servers, I know this because POE was the only thing lagging and it had been lagging all day.

I have also died to the touch of god once, it was kind of my fault for being lazy, but I still feel it was fucking dumb to get touched once and die.

The implication in your text is that these events are thematically connected. But I might be reading too much into some kind of stream-of-consciousness thing.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

I have personally died to lag on lab traps twice, both times because I was right-side non-pathfinder tree trying to run lab. Both times were GGG's servers, I know this because POE was the only thing lagging and it had been lagging all day.

I have also died to the touch of god once, it was kind of my fault for being lazy, but I still feel it was fucking dumb to get touched once and die.

The implication in your text is that these events are thematically connected. But I might be reading too much into some kind of stream-of-consciousness thing.

They are connected because GGG's servers are factually garbage. Whether it's a latency/bandwidth issue or an instability issue, I don't personally care, I just know they shit a lot.

Okay, so if lab traps cannot OHKO but they cause lag deaths, maybe the problem isn't the OH, but the KO + lag.

So maybe the solution to the lag death issue is logout (saving character) if excessive ping detected.