[2.4] The Furnace - Turn your enemy to ashes! Burning Vortex Chieftain

@alan26018

If you are going to go with Kaoms, which gems are you going to give up ? I am not sure you can keep 2 curses going without giving up too much, I run mine with Kaoms and I dont have gems slots available for any CWDT setups. I use Orb of Storms with Culling Strike, then Shield Charge with Fortify to get in close then Vortex for bosses/rares, the rest die from RF and the odd Vortex. I treat this build like a melee build. I dont have space for a range attack like Frost Bolt, which I find to be a rather clumsy skill to use on my old laptop as it is difficult for me to time the Vortex to trigger at the right time on the Frost Bolt.


How are you getting 130% Increased Damage from Iron Will ? I have 295 strength and I only see:
+1% increased Spell Damage for every five points of strength = 59%
Level 20 iron will gem = 38%
Quality 20 on gem = 10%
I get 107% Increased Damage with Iron Will
to get 130% I would need to have 410 Strength ?

I tested the Iron Will versus the Concentrated Effect, it was quick and dirty, level 18 Quality 19 Iron Will gave slightly over 15% more damage on tooltip vs Concentrated Effect (level 19, Quality 17) giving about 59% more damage on tooltip. That was done in different helms, I looked at the damage for each with only the Votex, Controlled Destruction and Increased Area of Effect gems noted the damage for each, then added the Concentrated effect and Iron Will gems to each helm and calculated the difference in damage increase. Helm 1 (white with 3 Blue and 1 Red socket) went from 6400 damage to 7400 with Iron Will added (about 15%)Helm 2 (Crafted 4 blue sockets) went from 9059 to 14489 with Concentrated effect added.

Dont know about fire pen, did you do some calculations ? seems to be target specific and doesnt help the DOT at all, doest look like a good option at first glance except against a high fire resist target, looks to me like other targets would take longer to kill if you take that option

@Gorcheu

Hey, I've made a lot of changes to my build and currently think it is pretty damn optimized (conceptually, not gear-wise). I am now lvl 86, 7.4k life and 15k dps on vortex in town (I could get more damage from passive tree but HC is HC lol). Firstly, here is my gear:



And here is my skill tree http://poedb.tw/us/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAEDAQGRA3UEswYOCfYLYQxfFCAWbxhqGS4aOBo-Gmwcpx0UIbAkqicvJ-0pLi3SLpQ09zWSNuk6WDrYOuE8BTwtPfxBh03jUEdTpVXGVkhXDVgHWGNYd18EXz9mVGjydqx4L3y4fOWCB4Kbg1-DzIPbhXuMz49GkFWRK5HOlmyXhZo7m6Gdrp7Nn8uf36IAplenCKcwrJitja9sr423PsBmxPbGrsbYz37SIdR81abYJNi92WHZfONq5CLsOO087w7vfPAf8WzxrPJB8kX2SPfX-ej-Cv6P (probably will pick up the curse effectiveness)

So with gems I noticed that higher level enfeebles don't scale that well effectiveness wise and the ice nova + codt was not necessary and basically wasting gems. Instead I just went with Codt + Enfeeble, I also decided to drop faster casting on orb of storms as you only ever really cast it on bosses due to the crazy damage on this build. This opens me up to also pick up shield charge + fortify which is awesome, highly recommend over lightning warp. I am really happy with my gem setup right now and am 95% sure i won't be changing it further.

Next, as you may notice i have decided to just drop pyre and pick up the AoF + Cold to Fire combo which allows me to pick up a ~100 life ring with resists (needed that chaos res badly), I think this tradeoff is worth it as it allows more freedom with gearing and a nice hp boost from the ring. Also this allows us to pick up another high armour helmet and get 3 off-colour blues on it like my gloves and boots (pretty easy to do with vorici).

After picking up doryani's and kaom's my damage went through the roof, I don't even bother with vortex on blues now. For this reason I have actually chucked conc effect back in as I only use it on single targets now and the damage is actually ridiculous. I basically killed increased life temple boss in the first platform!

Lastly just a couple random thoughts:
-Frostbolt actually just sucks imo, feels really inconsistent/clunky to use and I have a very high end computer.
-I have 370 str which will be well over 400 str after I do uber lab which is why I felt iron will could be good, If there was a 5th link I would use it but 20% cold to fire actually gives a nice dmg boost anyway

@alan26018

What happens to the cold DOT from Vortex when u use Cold to Fire and AoF ?

I was looking at other Vortex builds for inspiration and one of them uses a Decay essenced wand. I'm not sure exactly what can scale that, but I know spell damage does for sure. You can easily get 80% spell damage (can go higher if it rolls it), and while it's lower than Doryanni's ~130% elemental damage, the decay is probably better than the 50% loss. The build creator mentioned that their Decay had a tooltip of 9k and I looked at their tree and they only had ~50% more spell damage invested than what we would have. So I think if Decay hits for even 6k dps, that would be higher than what 50% increased damage from Doryanni's would give. The only real loss is the cast speed/attack speed unless you get lucky rolls. I'm also not sure if RF can apply Decay or not.

Of course, rolling Decay weapons for a good one would be more expensive than using Doryanni's. But if it's actually better it could be a nice upgrade since this build is relatively cheap otherwise. Unless you're like me and want to use Brass Dome in this build (I freaking love the mtx of it).

Too bad you can't dual wield wands and still get away with using RF.

"

Gorcheu wrote:

@alan26018

What happens to the cold DOT from Vortex when u use Cold to Fire and AoF ?

That should also be converted. It says it converts cold damage to fire. It doesn't distinguish between DoT and non-DoT

I wonder: How can you actually calculated the real damage you deal? RF tooltip doesn't really how anything. Vortex does show but of course that can't be relied on....

"

Camaron wrote:

How about using flame blast instead of vortex? that way you can use a str + life ring

Flameblast does deal nice damage but it's a chanelled spell. I'd rather cast spell and move again.

**Update lvl 91 for my post at page 5**




Now I'm at 39/40 challenges, only missing ~30 lab kills (doing tonight, easy layout and buffs) and around 16 Core Bosskills
(stashedalready ^^). This was all done with this build, I don't own any other characters in ESC or EHC.

This build is only getting better.

7.7k HP, 7 endu charges and a doubleburn that is incredible. 6-Man HP Core boss MELTS from one ignite.
Vortex tooltip sits at 37k with my non perfected gems with elemental overload. Note that much of the damage amplifiers are not reflected in the tooltip, as well as the burn that is not calculated (conc, area, etc.). Normal map bosses (like f.e. new temple guy) just die before they can do anything ^^ Uberlab Izaro too, one ignite, poof - gone. Exiles, Warbands, all a matter of seconds.

I can confirm that in 6-man parties with crazy corrupted maps the culling on Orb of Storms is a real asset. There are so many pathfinding BVs out there that never cull when solo (why should they?), but in group play it makes tough fights 11% easier :)

About the decay wands: I have enough funds to test this. What I can say is shieldcharge will proc it, vortex first hit will proc it, but RF won't since RF does not hit, RF only applies burn damaage, not sure about Orb of Storms (the hits count as your hits, too, but we'll see). Will report later :)

So actually after doing a bit more research about Decay, I think I understand the mechanics of it more. The damage is scaled only by general damage, chaos damage, and damage over time modifiers. The reason why it seems so good is because of Vortex's special modifier that spell damage can scale damage over time. This means that if Decay is applied via Vortex, spell damage will also affect Decay. So Decay applied through Shield Charge/Orb of Storms will be minor. There isn't really any chaos damage/DoT scaling in this build, unless you take the chaos/DoT wheel next to the fire wheel in the witch area (could be good if you go decay, as dot affects ignite and maybe RF?). That basically means using the Decay wand will really only apply a significant DoT when you use Vortex. Applied with anything else will likely only be the base 1k dps*Sulphur flask unless you link gems to them to scale chaos/dot damage. Unfortunately both Void Manipulation and Rapid Decay are dex gems so I'm not sure what else you could use to link to Shield Charge/OoS to scale chaos/DoT damage.

Essentially using a decay wand over Doryanni's lowers RF damage, but raises Vortex damage significantly. So I guess it depends on whether you need more clearspeed damage or more boss killing power.

I really want to use Witchfire Brew as it would scale everything including decay, except the initial vortex hit. The only problem is that the flask base itself is useless due to Unwavering Stance, and you'd have to somehow get a 2nd curse through the wheel or using Doedre's.

Why do you use Chance to Ignite with Vortex?

"

hyper_ch wrote:

Why do you use Chance to Ignite with Vortex?

Ignite is a large portion of the damage, so you want to be able to ignite bosses more easily. You're otherwise looking at something like a 35% chance to ignite without it. I'd imagine it's QoL since your vortex does so much damage already that it can one shot bosses if it ignites, so what's more important is getting that ignite instead of trying to raise the raw power more (which would be using somethine likg Fire Pen, Iron Will, Less Duration).

It definitely feels bad though that there is no damage modifier on the gem. I wish they'd change that.