How To Fix Scion EV Wheel

As we wait for patch notes in a few days, I'm curious to see if GGG will continue trying to ignore this glaring issue on the passive tree.

EV wheel by Scion has been unchanged since I started playing in 2013, and I'm sure older players who were in closed beta can opine on whether these nodes were the same in 2011/2012.

This has to be the most useless cluster in the passive tree. Period. And it's been like this, every single patch, for 3+ years.

It is so bad that not even the builds in the game that are built around stacking EV rating (Dreamfeather) are taking this wheel. That's how bad it is.


Simple fix: replace Scion EV wheel with the Alchemist flask wheel

- Increase total flask effect value from Alchemist wheel, spread it from 3 nodes to 6 nodes, and replace Scion EV wheel useless nodes with these nodes. Remove Alchemist from Witch.

- This would create an attractive alternative for people to choose between: Scion Life wheel, Scion ES wheel, Scion flask wheel

- Still available for ES builds but will now have a higher opportunity cost ofc and would no longer be a no-brainer for every ES shield build in town to run around with 10K+ ES, a ranged skill, and max blocks

- Fits thematically with the other flask nodes - which are all around this region of the tree anyway
Last edited by Ceryneian on Aug 27, 2016, 6:16:12 AM
Last bumped on Feb 22, 2017, 7:11:11 PM
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I always thought the way to fix the EV wheel was to give extra things with evasion, like 2% movement speed, or 2% dodge, with the notable having 5% of each ms and dodge plus the current boni.

What you propose is very nice and cute, but :

-giving flask effect will make that part very very strong. Not only that but you propose the total values to be increased as well. Clearly an unconditional buff.
-moving those kind of points there, will make pathfinders EVEN better (they are already t1 in power)
-there are already flask nodes in that area, meaning even more synergy and power for flasks
-doesnt fit with the str-int-dex theme of the scion wheels

The good thing is that other ES builds will need more points to access this kind of nodes, but again, who stops you from going ES scion or pathfinder.

Not a fan of this suggestion.
Inundated with cockroaches, I am

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions
"
Ceryneian wrote:

EV wheel by Scion has been unchanged since I started playing in 2013, and I'm sure older players who were in closed beta can opine on whether these nodes were the same in 2011/2012.

There was no Scion back then, the middle part of the tree was completely different.

I do not think that EV has as much problems as many people want to make it look like honestly, and I do feel that this cluster is pretty strong actually, if you want EV.
If you just pass through and have a use for EV, then you have one pretty strong node in the middle, and it's only 3 points. The other nodes around though .... could use some love, I agree with that.
Give those other nodes a 1%inc movespeed each maybe ?
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Aug 27, 2016, 6:33:22 AM
this wheel is utter thrash..

reasons are two or even three fold:

- EV has a sharp decline in ROI. once you reach 50%+ chance to evade the increases are marginal (unless using EV rating for some other purpose like QotF). and DEX + some items + just the %EV nodes you take anyway is enough to reach this limit.

- this cluster has to compete with life wheel. sorry, no chance. life wheel should have never existed in the first place. it should have been AR wheel. in such situation EV wheel might have even looked ok.

- most EV builds are crit builds and players (correctly, unfortunately) prioritize damaga over defences.

solution that can fix it is complex and ofc impossible as ggg already abandoned the passive tree but still:

life wheel -> AR wheel + MINOR %life (like 1% per node)
evasion wheel -> minor %ms per node

EV wheel notable -> de-crapify it. it looks just awful and compared to life wheel notable (most probably the best passive in the entire tree) it is pathetic

the two nodes (minor + notable) are good value if you just pass by but there are so few builds that are just passing by and are interested in 2 EV passives. not to mention that defences are de-mode anyway..
Im cofused in how they done it, so you have Life, ES and then evasion.
Idk whay evasion tho, it should be mana or its not logical...

Also how its set up curently its realy anoying how ES circle is so many time shorter way to travel but same time usles for 99% of builds.

Most of classes got nice stuff when you enter specific area but scion is not so conected and thers plenty of travel nodes.
Last edited by nEVER_BoRN on Aug 27, 2016, 9:09:58 AM
Notable in this wheel should give 10% dodge and 5% movement speed while all the other 1-2% dodge or movement speed (not both)

Fixed - 10% dodge is really strong - with base 50% with acrobatics is really OP.
IGN: PojzonAbyss
[3.2] Immortal Indigon Poet's Pen Hirophant - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2129766
[3.1] Yamata No Orochi - Oni-Goroshi Jugg http://poeurl.com/bHB9
[2.4] The True Queen Of The Forest - Poison LA/BR Pathfinder http://poeurl.com/M6u [Retired]
^Dodge would be to strong to add to the passive tree outside of the key-nodes.

Which is why we only see it in low quantity's in a select few ascendancy's.

Sid is actually correct in this instance, however i don't like the value's he proposes.

- life wheel should become an armor wheel.

little nodes should be like 2%life/6% armor, while the big node should have sufficient to make up for the overall life lost. I would also switch positions of the big nodes in this cluster, making the one that gives an overall high% life harder to get and not just a "movement path node" for traveling purposes.

Evasion cluster should get the same treatment. and a added 5% move speed bonus to the big node.

The energy shield cluster should transform to 5%ES (from 6%) and 2% mana to spice things up and make those traveling routes cost a bit more.
The big ES cluster node should provide 10% faster energy shield regen start as it's unique feature.

Because honestly, it's not that the evasion cluster is bad as a traveling route option, i use it quite often.
It's more that it just fails horribly when compared to the pure health pool increasing clusters.
So it becomes more about balancing those tree options out relative to one another, while maintaining a balance for scion herself.(who in my scenario would have close access to all of these clusters and its bonuses to suck up the "life-wheels" reduced efficiency)

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
"
nEVER_BoRN wrote:
Im cofused in how they done it, so you have Life, ES and then evasion.
Idk whay evasion tho, it should be mana or its not logical...

Also how its set up curently its realy anoying how ES circle is so many time shorter way to travel but same time usles for 99% of builds.

Most of classes got nice stuff when you enter specific area but scion is not so conected and thers plenty of travel nodes.

The logical way would be to have armour, ES and evasion imho.

It is also a bit ironic that the secondary defense such as block / dodge / evasions are the thing that needs the biggest buffer, if anything .... and at the end, the only wheel not getting a buffer increasing value is evasion.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
"
Boem wrote:
^Dodge would be to strong to add to the passive tree outside of the key-nodes.

Which is why we only see it in low quantity's in a select few ascendancy's.

Sid is actually correct in this instance, however i don't like the value's he proposes.

- life wheel should become an armor wheel.

little nodes should be like 2%life/6% armor, while the big node should have sufficient to make up for the overall life lost. I would also switch positions of the big nodes in this cluster, making the one that gives an overall high% life harder to get and not just a "movement path node" for traveling purposes.

Evasion cluster should get the same treatment. and a added 5% move speed bonus to the big node.

The energy shield cluster should transform to 5%ES (from 6%) and 2% mana to spice things up and make those traveling routes cost a bit more.
The big ES cluster node should provide 10% faster energy shield regen start as it's unique feature.

Because honestly, it's not that the evasion cluster is bad as a traveling route option, i use it quite often.
It's more that it just fails horribly when compared to the pure health pool increasing clusters.
So it becomes more about balancing those tree options out relative to one another, while maintaining a balance for scion herself.(who in my scenario would have close access to all of these clusters and its bonuses to suck up the "life-wheels" reduced efficiency)

Peace,

-Boem-


That ... Would ... Make ... Them ... 100% useless beside bypassing. Armour will always be worth less than evasion and es just from how inefficient it is vs high dmg attacks. Noone would EVER pick those nodes(mara start nodes give 4%and%6). Same treatment most likely would happen to Mana-ES nodes (but that one is debatable thx to damage returned as mana rings). With only 5% movement for EV it would still be in terrible spot compared to other options.
IGN: PojzonAbyss
[3.2] Immortal Indigon Poet's Pen Hirophant - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2129766
[3.1] Yamata No Orochi - Oni-Goroshi Jugg http://poeurl.com/bHB9
[2.4] The True Queen Of The Forest - Poison LA/BR Pathfinder http://poeurl.com/M6u [Retired]
^Your neglecting that i would swap the big life node with the physical/str/flat armor one and give that high value's to compensate for the overall loss in the rest of the wheel.

Making the travel cost higher and making it less efficient as a traveling route.(which is not a bad thing)

Also, the evasion wheel would also give life/eva, so you could actually go to both clusters to top off hybrid builds while racking up a solid amount of %life in the process and additional perks.

This thread is about "fixing the EV wheel" which is impossible to do if the other wheels remain in their current state, since they compete with it.

And the scion life wheel is entirely to mandatory on a lot of builds, which is very bad in it's own right.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : i consider it entirely impossible to "balance" out something without taking into consideration other things. Since this game is about choice, choices inherently compete with one another.

Just slapping something on the evasion wheel would make it either OP or keep it in it's current state. It wouldn't provoke the illusion of choice at all, it would be either superior then other options in the current passive tree or inferior as is considered now.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
Last edited by Boem on Aug 27, 2016, 10:11:46 AM

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