Prototype Lacerate Build: Advice/Comments/Concerns?

Once upon a time, in a land far removed from this one, there was a master of the Reave. His thirsty blade drank the souls of legions, covering the sky itself in dripping crimson. He could maintain fifty stacks throughout a map, slaughtering his way through the corrupted armies of the damned from the comfort and safety of three screens away. His sword was an invisible blur, with so many APS that merely watching his incredible, peerless swordsmanship was enough to give one tennis elbow. He could clear a Gorge in thirty seconds, he could slay Atziri in forty. Izaro trembled and quailed every time the Master of Reave set foot within the Lord’s Labyrinth. Even the Goddess of Justice, immortal and untouchable from her position ten feet above the floor, feared the Master of Reave and his terrible blood-drinking blade.

The Master of Reave was optimized. He was endgame. His gear was perfect, his links impeccable. His build was the very stuff of legends.

This is not that build. This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with the Master of Reave. Seriously, I’m not even remotely Korean enough to keep up with that shit.

Let’s talk about Lacerate, instead.

…Hi.

I’ve been tooling away on a build concept for a little bit here, and wanted to run the idea by you folks for advice and tune-up. The central idea is to use the Gladiator Ascendancy’s ‘Outmatch and Outlast’ node with a Southpaw-style build and either Blood Rage or Blood Dance boosts to generate both endurance and frenzy charges on offhand kills. Added to this, we have easy access to the Gladiator’s Painforged and Versatile Combatant nodes to add very good defense via block; to facilitate this, we can use Advancing Fortress as, essentially, a mainhand shield. We get all the benefits of the Southpaw build archetype and also significant block and spell block chance…provided we can find a skill that:

A.) works in the off-hand (a surprisingly large number of recent skills are mainhand-only, which allows for cool stuff when offhanding things like Advancing Fortress, Death’s Hand, Ungil’s Gauche, whatever, but denies us the key precept of super-easy Endurance charges off of O&O)

B.) does not work with claws (Advancing Fortress is…sub-optimal…as an attacking weapon), and

C.) isn’t Reave. Because I don’t have remotely enough meth on hand to play a Reave build.

Turns out there’s one and exactly one skill that fits all three criteria – Lacerate. This, then, gives us the core of the build – Gladiator Southpaw block Lacerate build.

First, the prototype tree:

PoE Planner: Lvl 92 Lacerate

(Note: I’m almost certainly never going to be able to carry the build to actual level 92, but this demonstrates the ‘Complete’ tree’s capabilities. Slice off singleton life nodes and other such dangly junk as required.)

(Second Note: the ‘goal’ of the build, as such, is mostly what others might call “mid-endgame”. I’d love to be able to reliably run Uberlab, but Uber Atziri and the Shaper are probably write-offs. I can’t even beat regular Atziri, if mostly because I don’t know her mechanics well. Assume this is for high mid-tier maps, mebbe lowbie reds, in SC with some leeway thrown in because I don’t tend to pitch snitfits if something instagibs me.)

Tree goes Axe instead of Sword due to Resolute Technique rendering the otherwise excellent accuracy bonuses of the Blademaster wheel moot, and because axes tend to be cheaper than swords in a build that’s already going to cost me at least five exalts (Stupid friggin’ jewels…). The switch can be made easily enough, however, especially since Blademaster costs me two less points than Cleaving does. Level 92 tree is with every last pithy life node filled out, at which point we’re at 189% life with 8% standing regeneration, 2% life leech per hit and some extra regen per Endurance charge. Not bad for a SC character.

Resolute Technique, obviously, to save us tons of nodes and gear on crit/accuracy. Emphasis is on reaching the Templar AoE to help boost Lacerate and then focusing on life, life regen, and jewel sockets when and as available in the Templar/Marauder area, whilst grabbing the juicy dual wield bonuses in Duelist. At least two jewel sockets are a requirement. Sadly.

***

Insofar as gear goes, obviously Advancing Fortress is a key piece. I’m also aiming (eventually. They’re expensive as hell -_-) for two +4 block Reckless Defense jewels. With the dual wield bonus, the handful of block nodes we get in the tree, and the Gladiator bonuses, two Reckless Defenses lets us get to (15 DW + 15 Adv. Fortress + (4+9 Tree) + (4+4 RD)) 51% standing block chance before Painforged, with 140% of that applied to Spellblock via RD and Versatile Combatant. 71.4 spellblock, which caps out once Painforged kicks in. Vurreh nice. Suck on them apples, Goddess of (In)justice.

I will also admit, I am strongly considering using Bringer of Rain. On top of being super thematic for the build (of course a Gladiator would be wearing the ultimate Gladiator helm, eh?), BoR also allows us to maintain our Endurance charges even in fights with scant chance for O&O to restock our charges via 20% chance on (our very frequent) blocks to gain an Endurance charge. It’s also an additional source of flat block chance – 57% standing block and capped Spellblock before Painforged, approaching max attack block as well when Painforged kicks in. Don’t even need Rumi’s at this point. BoR also lets me 7L my Lacerate – go with Lacerate > Multistrike > Inc. AoE > Fortify in the BoR and get a nearly ideal link set for RT Lacerate, with the Blind helping to counteract Reckless Defense’s increased vulnerability to crits since Multistrike FA Lacerate will hit more than often enough to blind the world.

…also I’ve basically been looking for an excuse to run a Bringer of Rain build basically since I knew that BoR and/or builds existed. This is pretty much the best chance I’m ever going to get – builds don’t come much more synergistic with BoR than this. Even if I’d have to run Uberlab a million and three times to get the proper Lacerate enchantment for this one specific helm.

Main weapon would be a rare axe (or sword) with ~200 or better pDPS, Vagan-crafted with “Attacks Cause Bleeding”, in order to fuel Gratuitous Violence’s bloodsplosions. Alternatively, a rare axe (or sword) with ~200 or better pDPS not Vagan-crafted with “Attacks Cause Bleeding” and we just deal with the 25% chance of boom instead of 100% chance of boom. Gratuitous Violence is mostly a highly amusing afterthought that fits the whole “Extra Gore” theme of BoR. Plus Violent Retaliation mostly bites, though I’m perfectly willing to be convinced otherwise if folks have experience that backs up the ‘otherwise’ viewpoint.

I’m also very tempted to go with Blood Dances over running Blood Rage for Frenzy generation. It sucks to give up 8+ life regeneration after going out of your way to get it (indeed, with Blood Dances we’d get an extra 2.5 regeneration with all our F/E charges up, instead of cutting it down to 4%!), and with no chest around link slots are going to be very scant. Problem with that, a’course, is that Blood Dances don’t come with life or resistances, two things which the build is going to be quite hard-pressed to max out without a chestpiece or a proper shield. We’d have five rare slots plus a couple of free jewel slockets to try and cap resistances/acquire sufficient life. I’ve done that before (hell, done it on four rares and a couple of jewels), but it’s both expensive and a buttpain.

Links…well. Probably something like the following:

BoR: Lacerate > Multistrike > Inc. AoE > Fortify (> Melee Phys > FA > Blind)
4L: CWDT > Immortal Call > Inc. Duration > Vaal Haste
4L: Blasphemy > Enfeeble | Herald of Ash | Blood Rage(?)
Adv. Fortress: Whirling Blades > Leap Slam > Culling Strike
OH: Lightning/Fire Golem | *STUFF > MORE STUFF*

Lacerate for killaging the world, CWDT set because derp, BlasFeeble over HoA for an additional defensive layer on our bare-chested face chopper (not sold on this, but I’m less sold on Hatred. Convince me either way, I s’pose), Blood Rage if I don’t end up caving and using Blood Dances. Both Whirling Blades and Leap Slam in Fortress to give me in-fight mobility and map travseral – previous characters have shown me that having both is awesome if it is at all feasible, and since it’s totally feasible here why not? Culling Strike on the movement skills is something else I’ve discovered a fondness for during Prophecy league and my experiments with Frost Blades, and since we have room here, again: why not?

I’ll admit, I have no real clue what to do with the spare two gems on the OH weapon. I’m theorycrafting out of the blue at work here between calls; I feel very much like there’s stuff I’m missing but I cannot figure out what it is. Hopefully you folks can help jog my currently-crappy memory.

So…yeah. I suppose that’s about it. And probably far more of ‘It’ than you ever wanted, but hey. What can I say – I like to write. Any advice, tips, comments on the idea? Things to consider, things to watch out for? Recommendations for better skill links? I’m willing (even eager, perhaps!) to discuss most anything.

…I’m bored. Gimme something to talk about!

Honestly lacerate is a better skill then reave for boss fights so I can see why you want this.

Thought about this too tested it and build is dual wield life based is the biggest issue it has.

Most content the build idea should work but for end game content it probably won't work that well.

Also going crit and using abyssus will greatly increase your dps by greatly I mean by like 3-4 times.
But you will die because abyssus is the trade off I guess...

Reflect is also a huge issue once you get your damage scaled high enough.
Going RT route your damage may not get high enough to be a big issue but...

The amount of defenses you get from a regular shield with 1k armor is vastly superior to the 15% block your getting from advancing fortress. The advancing fortress is probably better replaced by something that adds dps or utility.

I'v thought about trying to make this with CI and vaal pact and crown of eyes but the damage just isn't going to be that great so I never really went through with testing it.

Hmm...a CI Vaal Pact crit-based Lacerate build kinda sounds more like an Assassin than a Gladiator to me. You'd have to skillgrimage a damn lot to try and make those keystones and also collect enough ES to make Chaos Inoculation work on a Gladiator start.

Could very well be an interesting build, yeah. Heh...I just got done spending pretty much the entirety of Prophecy league on the right side of the tree, though. Was thinking of branching out a bit.

Abyssus vs. Bringer of Rain is kind of an interesting conundrum. Both of them compromise your defenses - Abyssus by essentially making you perma-Vulnerable, BoR by stripping you of your body armor. They both have pretty hefty flat physical rolls, though Abyssus' is bigger, and of course Abyssus has that ludicrously oversized crit multi.

I suppose my issue with crit is that it is ungodly expensive. You need to get 400, 500, 600+% crit multi for crit to be worth investing in at "endgame" levels, and getting that much crit multi whilst also capping resists and grabbing life is really flippin' hard. I'm one of those low-rent budget guys that tends to run RT, EO and other non-crit-multi stuff simply because half-decent crit gear starts at an exalt and a half per slot and goes swiftly north. Hn.

Only crit I can really get in the tree is Dismeboweling, Eagle Eye and Twin Terrors. 292% crit; would need at least 100% more in gear and an Inc. Critstrikes gem on Lacerate to get anywhere close to reasonable crit chance. After that, even with a really well-rolled/expensive Abyssus, I'd need another 200% or so crit multi to really call it a crit builds. That's fourteen nodes I'd have to find in the tree somewhere for the crit chance, on top of needing crit chance, crit multi, and now accuracy on pretty much every piece of rare gear I can find. And somehow cap my resistances on top of that.

That's...hard. And well beyond any budget I could ever reasonably aspire to. It'd be an interesting build, and would certainly out-clearspeed the everlovin' hizzwhell out of the variant I'm looking at, but I don't think I could ever build that character. I'd pretty much have to run it as an Assassin, and even then it'd be brutally expensive. On top of 6L-ing a pure ES chest and coloring it 3R/2G/1B. The result would be bitchin', but I'm never gonna see it.

Heh...besides. Everything works better on Assassin. Kinda fun to try and figure out ways to make not-Assassins perform too, eh?

Only skimmed, but I will agree that crit is only for those who have shitloads of money.

Even with the Assassin ascendancy and max p-charge investment I dare not attempt a crit build of any sort. It requires crit rings and crit on other gear just to become viable. It further requires a minimum of a five-link just to get working. Since I'm someone who prefers a Tabula over rare chests, crit builds simply aren't an option. Too many required supports to get working.

I'd rather spend a few chaos and get two Doryani's Catalysts and not need damage investment than waste all my efforts on something that won't work.

As to your general choice of Advancing Fortress over a shield, I'm curious why you think it might be worthwhile.

First point I see is that it gives you the benefits of dual wielding while only using your main-hand weapon, since it doesn't work with claws. Or, at least, I assume so. That's some more damage, more attack speed, and 30% block with AF on your off-hand.

Besides that, I doubt the LGOH on AF applies globally. If it does, it's like a low level support for everything. But I doubt this is worthwhile.

"

Natharias wrote:

As to your general choice of Advancing Fortress over a shield, I'm curious why you think it might be worthwhile.

First point I see is that it gives you the benefits of dual wielding while only using your main-hand weapon, since it doesn't work with claws. Or, at least, I assume so. That's some more damage, more attack speed, and 30% block with AF on your off-hand.

Besides that, I doubt the LGOH on AF applies globally. If it does, it's like a low level support for everything. But I doubt this is worthwhile.

Well, the main point is to break Outmatch and Outlast, in the Gladiator Ascendancy.

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Outmatch_and_Outlast

"25% chance to gain a Frenzy Charge on Kill with Main Hand
25% chance to gain an Endurance Charge on Kill with Off Hand
10% more Physical Damage while at maximum Frenzy Charges
10% reduced Physical Damage taken while at maximum Endurance Charges"

The "25% chance to gain an Endurance Charge on Kill with Off Hand" is one of the best non-Warlord's Mark ways to generate Endurance Charges in the game, outside of being a Juggernaut. However, to really break it open you need to force all of your attacks to come from your off-hand by dual-wielding with a weapon lacerate can't attack with in the main hand. Lacerate works with swords and axes; means I can use anything but a sword or axe in the main hand and force Lacerate to kill from the off-hand, thus constantly feeding me easy Endurance charges. Use Blood Dance or Blood Rage, and I get easy Frenzy charges too and can constantly sit on those sweet bonuses from O&O.

People used to do the same thing for Reave all the time - dual-wield Reave with a none-Reave-y mainhand to get some nice offhand bonuses and good utility. It's generally called "Southpaw" building, and it can do some pretty cool stuff.

That's why I'm running Advancing Fortress over a shield - I can't stick a shield in the main hand, and going axe/shield would mean losing my Endurance charges. That would be a far bigger hit to my defenses than Advancing Fortress could really be, eh?

You could literally plug in a spell and do more damage, then.

I fail to see how you could benefit from the e-charges more than a good weapon.

"

1453R wrote:

The "25% chance to gain an Endurance Charge on Kill with Off Hand" is one of the best non-Warlord's Mark ways to generate Endurance Charges in the game, outside of being a Juggernaut.

And also not counting Endurance charge on melee stun (+ vengeance), or enduring cry.

PS: Voll's devotion, Daresso's Defiance, Bringer of Rain (which you are using already),...

Hey mate!
You might find this interesting.

"

Natharias wrote:

Even with the Assassin ascendancy and max p-charge investment I dare not attempt a crit build of any sort. It requires crit rings and crit on other gear just to become viable. It further requires a minimum of a five-link just to get working. Since I'm someone who prefers a Tabula over rare chests, crit builds simply aren't an option. Too many required supports to get working.

you dont need crit rings, u can bench crit on an amulet for a few chaos and thats the only crit you really need on gear. Needs minimum of a 5L, you just said u use a 6L. You cna do a crit build you just havent tried to do it the right way, its not expensive, I play crit builds self found and never had a problem.







Cant you use use enduring cry for endurance charges then use a proper shield? Endurance charges dont need an alternate way to be generated u just warcry now and then. Are you really going to gimp yourself because you cant be bothered to push one button now and then?

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

Even with the Assassin ascendancy and max p-charge investment I dare not attempt a crit build of any sort. It requires crit rings and crit on other gear just to become viable. It further requires a minimum of a five-link just to get working. Since I'm someone who prefers a Tabula over rare chests, crit builds simply aren't an option. Too many required supports to get working.

you dont need crit rings, u can bench crit on an amulet for a few chaos and thats the only crit you really need on gear. Needs minimum of a 5L, you just said u use a 6L. You cna do a crit build you just havent tried to do it the right way, its not expensive, I play crit builds self found and never had a problem.







Cant you use use enduring cry for endurance charges then use a proper shield? Endurance charges dont need an alternate way to be generated u just warcry now and then. Are you really going to gimp yourself because you cant be bothered to push one button now and then?

Oh, is there something I haven't considered? I don't just doubt it, I know I've tried everything.

The only thing I haven't done is tried a crit build with the new ICS support, since it increases base crit chance, or the new Assassin's p-charge base crit chance.

I've been too consumed by the awesomeness that is the Berserker.