as a vaal pact character in the prophecy, I fully agree at least for the "uber" trial, that's really really sucks. I don't play anymore in HC for that, and no, it don't give an HC feeling in sc, if you don't have regen it's just horribily stressfull, thank you...
My VP no regen BV character did all the map trials and farmed 40+ uber labs. Regen is 100% not needed in the lab.
Lab haters army incoming to support op in 3... 2... 1...
Funny to see "white knight army"(don't like this expression but using it there in parallel with yours) coming even before your countdown. Nice one ! :)
"If you have the skill and do almost any preparation"
If I don't have the skill and don't do any preparation (like cold resist) against merc (or even cruel) Merveil I can die over and over again without losing much time, same apply for most of the game, but not for lab.
Loss of time isn't an valid excuse, if you aren't willing to learn the game or do anything different to overcome the challenge you shouldn't be playing this game to begin with. What is going to happen when you start doing various map mods, just zerg those down as well or don't even due them? If you aren't doing map mods, why on earth do you even care about AC points?
The lab is meant to be that higher level of content that requires more then a zerg approach, again one of the worst changes they did to the game was have you respawn outside the zone like mervel, this game isn't a causal game, nor was it originally designed to be such.
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A challenge to get power fits the game: agreed! Still doesn't explain why it should be lab and without any death (or leaving). "Rather stupid suggestion" isn't a way to argue, my reply to that end here.
Leaving is because you could cheese it with pots and without deaths, well obviously because you can just throw your body at it. Cheese free content is actually good game design, even if "causal" players aren't able to catch on.
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"it doesn't take that long, unless you completely ignore all sources of help out there for you" I would say the time really vary, please consider things like loading times and new players and number of deaths, also daily lab thread is a third party source and I do use it, but I have to question this! Is it right to make people stop playing, take a look at a third party site, then come back?
Loading times? Its 2016, if you don't have an SSD by this stage you well shouldn't be playing any games probably. What do you want, GGG to put the daily lab thread inside the game, would that make you happy, many aspects of this game requires alt+tab, it isn't farteched to assume that players that want to enjoy this game should use resources available to them. You don't go around playing random games without looking up information when needed do you?
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Should I tell the same Merveil story again? Anywhere in the game I can die over and over again and still overcome the challenge without losing too much time. I can even die 5 times on core malachai, but not on the lab, die at the last Izaro and you lose the run.
Time is not a factor that should be considered here. But sure you save time because you can zerg the content, that doesn't mean that change was good, if anything it was bad.
Content you have to play more carefully around is good, not bad, suggesting otherwise, aside from "the rest of the game i can just play like a retard" isn't a valid reason as to why its "bad" that the lab requires you do it without playing like a retard.
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"Proper planning", "Decoy, blind, positioning, movement skills... playstile..." So, you have to change your gameplay for lab? I agree that you do! I judt don't think this should be the only way to do lab.
Do you do all content in the game without adjusting anything, like -max maps, specific boss encounters, ect? No you adjust when you can because its the efficient and effective thing to do. How do people do boss encounters outside of the lab, like in maps, just offscreen them? What about tankier bosses that hit hard, they probably use blind or decoy. Positioning isn't knew, you have to avoid getting hit by bearers and avoid volitile blood. Movement skills, at this point almost everyone likely uses at least one movement skill. I'm not suggesting you change your playstyle completely only that you use the resources you actually already like use, if not you should be because these resources will also help you outside the lab as well.
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Ascendancy should be a reward for a challence, I agree! "That challenge is the lab", "they are a pair"(really romantic <3) But I still don't agree they should? Also People did run lab a lot even after getting the AC points just for the enchants (and uber lab for the enchants and loot). About the game suffering for power given for free, if you're lucky and get some chaos you can ask someone to run lab for you, power given almost for free.
This is what cracks me up most about the lab complains, where you say you can purchase a rush, as if that prevents you from having to deal with the traps altogether, it does not. Some places there are short cuts or you have to deal less with, but you still have to make it thru traps. People I think pay for rushes for the boss aspect as he can be very difficult on some days, but the boss has nothing to do with the traps.
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You're right. I was thinking about tank builds with foify+armor+power charges.
Fortify also only works against the traps that hit. Think you mean endurance charges here, those are % reduction so they work against almost all the traps.
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You find side areas, touch a thing and get teleported back. If you do that some times you are able to fight a boss. I could be talking about Atziri or Izaro. The whole thing just look like a side quest. But it isn't. Peoploe run Atziri and Lab for the loot. I really think you can get the AC points out of that.
People FARM the lab for the loot, they RUN the lab (as in once) for the AC points.
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There, much better argumentation! Why finishing the game acts, "saving the wolrd", discovering the plot gives you: nothing? I rather get some AC points than stay with the "random portal to the same old shore again".
Except it would give you both with that suggestion. You aren't "saving the world", much like previously killing dominius wasn't, there is obviously more to the story, which is why they don't reward you with anything anyway. Act bosses don't give you shit in rewards, malachai should be no different.
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It's quite simple to stop the fast run/enchant farm: just do the same as they did with quests: checkpoints. You can't fight piety without doing solar temple, you shouldn't do Izaro III, without Izaro II and I.
Changing is what I want, also thank you for your feedback!
Quite simple you say, lol. That only addresses the issue if it is, but if I had to suspect it isn't quite simple nor is it probably going to change.
As it is, I feel I should learn and adapt only for lab. I really don't change my play style neither leveling nor maping. I always did with almost any map mods and I can't even remember the last time I lost a map, when mistakes or any other problem happens on a map, you still have another 5 portals.
On a side note, I really like learning and adapting to new metas I would dare to say the current meta is fast, more casual maybe? Specially end game, fast farm, gorge/plateau runs. But lab is the oposite, you either build for it or you have to take care and prepare, take it slowly.
(zone respawn) One of the worst changes? I think it was one of the best changes (and I don't even die as much as I did before)!
Yeah, loading times. I was able to buy this PC in 2012 and I srsly need an update like a SSD and more RAM but i'm in Brazil, technology is expensive and I can't afford to use as much as I would like on a hobby. This isn't much of a problem, only when I die on Lab. Loadings there are insane.
When playing, sometimes I do alt+tab to get information, to start trades or even watch streams. But I think GGG is in the right way trying to reduce this as much as possible (i.e. trade tabs) the less we rely on third party, the better.
Saving time is good when you are doing things that you donn't really enjoy as much. I don't really mind taking my time leveling, doing side quests so I don't have to backtrack later. I really enjoy the late game, specially going for high yellow/red maps and cheering for more red maps. I like going fast. Lab slow me down.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but "playing like a retard" is what most PoE players do, rushing to the end game and even after that. Harder and slower contend should feel like an option (like Uber Atziri or Hall of the grandmasters) not part of the core game. If you like going slow and against the meta you can always challenge yourself (like ProjectPT) going for Solo Self Found, or even dare the SSF no craft.
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Do you do all content in the game without adjusting anything, like -max maps, specific boss encounters, ect? No you adjust when you can because its the efficient and effective thing to do. How do people do boss encounters outside of the lab, like in maps, just offscreen them? What about tankier bosses that hit hard, they probably use blind or decoy. Positioning isn't knew, you have to avoid getting hit by bearers and avoid volitile blood. Movement skills, at this point almost everyone likely uses at least one movement skill. I'm not suggesting you change your playstyle completely only that you use the resources you actually already like use, if not you should be because these resources will also help you outside the lab as well.
Some minor adjustments maybe like not facetanking Oversoul/malachai/Brittle Empreror slam, or avoiding shocked/chilled ground, but on lab you have to do more adjusts and changes than the usual. Some people also rush down bosses instead of taking a slow and carefull aproach, I'm one of them.
Never bought a run, but I saw some on streams. The runner allready know the right way, open traps when possible and usually clear the mobs. Personally I don't really mind the traps, they did got me some times when I was learning the trials, not many times after that (still hate the poison darts though). My main problem is with the one-try thing.
Some minor adjustments maybe like not facetanking Oversoul/malachai/Brittle Empreror slam, or avoiding shocked/chilled ground, but on lab you have to do more adjusts and changes than the usual. Some people also rush down bosses instead of taking a slow and carefull aproach, I'm one of them.
If you ever reach Crema / Necropolis for example, you will see that some gear adjustments are more than welcome, especially if there is one or two nasty mods for the boss fight ( if you have a build that can destroy the boss in seconds, maybe that will be less needed tho .... power creep ://// )
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
To me, it seems that the main issue people have with the labyrinth isn't the traps, but the extra-hard boss at the end.
A labyrinth run takes a lot of time, and, while you can offset trap difficulty by taking some extra time to run through them, you can't do so against Izaro, which hits extra-hard, and is extra-resistant. This makes the fight against him pretty rippy, and a single mistake in a long fight (and the fight gets longer the more casual your build is) can ruin the whole run.
I would be willing to bet that, if you increased the amount of traps, but slowed down Izaro, you would get a lot less complaints about the labyrinth.
as a vaal pact character in the prophecy, I fully agree at least for the "uber" trial, that's really really sucks. I don't play anymore in HC for that, and no, it don't give an HC feeling in sc, if you don't have regen it's just horribily stressfull, thank you...
My VP no regen BV character did all the map trials and farmed 40+ uber labs. Regen is 100% not needed in the lab.
My VP berzerker also, all the labs, and I got VP in like cruel I think.
It's more comfortable now that the last ascendancy points gave me the 25% instant life + mana on warcry use tho :]
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Why still everybody complains about how hard is lab?
first it is not, in normal and cruel you dont need really anything to defeat izaro, in marc you just need some hp, uber well its really hard when you dont have armour + life
but solution is really simple:
when you cant defeat izaro, just buy lab carry, its cost almost nothing (3c in merc and offering to the goddess in uber) you "lost" literally max 30min on both lab runs and after that just forget about lab and enjoy the game
when you cant defeat izaro, just buy lab carry, its cost almost nothing (3c in merc and offering to the goddess in uber) you "lost" literally max 30min on both lab runs and after that just forget about lab and enjoy the game
Are you trolling?
That you are able to bypass some content by bribing other players doesn't make that content balanced or good for the game. If anything, if GGG used that argument of yours, it would be a clear demonstration of failure to be able to balance the game from their part.
when you cant defeat izaro, just buy lab carry, its cost almost nothing (3c in merc and offering to the goddess in uber) you "lost" literally max 30min on both lab runs and after that just forget about lab and enjoy the game
Are you trolling?
That you are able to bypass some content by bribing other players doesn't make that content balanced or good for the game. If anything, if GGG used that argument of yours, it would be a clear demonstration of failure to be able to balance the game from their part.
I don't think so, GGG designed the lab with that in mind.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
