EDIT: Melee will go extinct before even getting to final 5 Atlas bosses

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raics wrote:

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Starxsword wrote:

But what you are saying is catch 22 though. You expect melee to be right next to the opponent and also want melee to have clear speed. These two things cannot work together.

That's a popular misconception somewhat characteristic for PoE. If there are, say, three groups of enemies in the room, the total time a melee would need to kill group1, move to group2, kill group two, move to group3, kill it and exit the room just needs to be similar to what a ranged build would take to kill all three groups while kiting and exit the room.

The problem here is ranged builds don't clear nearly slow enough and don't lose nearly enough time on kiting, that's pretty much the gist of it.

I am unsure if I would call it a misconception. The power level between normal tier items/gems and high tier items/gems are vast, even though Ascendency did somewhat close the gap.
If high end range players have trouble one shotting blue mobs, then, it will take forever for normal range players to kill the same said blue mobs.

If the discrepancy between high end and normal gear weren't that large, then, it would be easier to balance. But as is, the best way to make melee work is to make it similarly efficient.

The first thing that has got to go is the way melee works. That alone makes melee really hard to play. Forcing the player to walk up and swing at "air" is just annoying.
The second thing is either give melee movement on attack (like Shield Charge) or have the attack hit multiple targets, by AoE (like Earthquake) or chain (like part of Wild Strike), it doesn't matter.

Would be cool if we have Multistrike and Melee Splash effect combined into one support gem with slightly reduced value on "less damage" modifier(*1) to give a fresh air for pure single target melee skills. "Impact" from Slayer ascendancy should be changed though, we got many good AoE oriented skills for that purpose in general.

I was always feeling something wrong mowing off a monster with heavy melee hit without even touching tiny insects under my feet. Multistrike didn't solve that without Melee Splash and that made me leaving from melee build (already 4 links, main skill - melee physical - multistrike - melee splash and 2 of those essential support gems killing the base damage modifier from main skill and melee physical damage support.)

Goodbye to Melee Splash gem. You really helped and suffered poor melee builds.

*1 30% * 50-31% less damage combined is too much.

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Bleed/Poison works great against endgame content:

Poison/Bleed Earthquake w/ Rapid Decay on my PVP Champion NOT a slayer or juggernaut ;)

TOTAL BULLSHIT.

Bleed doesn't stack = you need slow BIG hits = EQ only

Try the same with Reave/Lacerate/Wildstrike/Cleave/Double Strike/Dual Strike/Elemental Hit/Frost Blades/Viper Strike and you will completely SUCK.

Melee is either Cyclone or EQ, the rest is pure shit.

No, hitting from across the room with Lightning Strike is not melee despite the melee tag.

To be honest, melee builds could be fine if not for some huge 1-shot hits, that practically makes all of the melee defenses mute.
Things such as the vaal's/malachai's hits on merciless 1shotted my character due to carelessness, since he was nearly immune up to that point (it was rare that my hp got to less than 80% and never in real danger).
If there were melee parts to deal with savage strikes (the over 20% of health or whatever), it would be great. I'm talking about things along the lines of "armor is 3 times as effective against savage strikes", "savage strikes damage is dealt damage over 1 second", "if you have more than 15% hp, savage strike cannot reduce your health below 1 hp".
Something along these lines will mean that melee will have a large defense against the dreaded 1-shots, but still need to take care of the incoming damage.

I think that melee should be slower in clearing than ranged, but at the same time a lot less prone to getting accidentally killed (more room to make mistakes, but more time to make them)

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Starxsword wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Starxsword wrote:

But what you are saying is catch 22 though. You expect melee to be right next to the opponent and also want melee to have clear speed. These two things cannot work together.

That's a popular misconception somewhat characteristic for PoE. If there are, say, three groups of enemies in the room, the total time a melee would need to kill group1, move to group2, kill group two, move to group3, kill it and exit the room just needs to be similar to what a ranged build would take to kill all three groups while kiting and exit the room.

The problem here is ranged builds don't clear nearly slow enough and don't lose nearly enough time on kiting, that's pretty much the gist of it.

I am unsure if I would call it a misconception. The power level between normal tier items/gems and high tier items/gems are vast, even though Ascendency did somewhat close the gap.
If high end range players have trouble one shotting blue mobs, then, it will take forever for normal range players to kill the same said blue mobs.

Sure, it's all in the same bag of chips. By saying that melee-ranged power ratio is wrong I wasn't implying that the rest of the game is fine, or that fixing melee/ranged would be possible without tampering with the myriad of mechanics it leans onto. The very reason I accepted the current state of things is I realize it would take a crapload of work to set it all straight, pretty much rebalance everything from the ground up, which is unrealistic at this point.

But, it still feels like crap and I don't think it was intended from the start. When I say that the game doesn't have to be that way I mean that it could be different and still keep the base PoE mechanics, this is as much as we can expect in the current state of the game. I'm discussing the theoretical side of things, melee can be as good as ranged and still be melee and that would be possible in PoE environment without turning into something entirely different, but in current PoE - nah.

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CommodoX wrote:

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Bleed/Poison works great against endgame content:

Poison/Bleed Earthquake w/ Rapid Decay on my PVP Champion NOT a slayer or juggernaut ;)

TOTAL BULLSHIT.

Bleed doesn't stack = you need slow BIG hits = EQ only

Try the same with Reave/Lacerate/Wildstrike/Cleave/Double Strike/Dual Strike/Elemental Hit/Frost Blades/Viper Strike and you will completely SUCK.

Melee is either Cyclone or EQ, the rest is pure shit.

No, hitting from across the room with Lightning Strike is not melee despite the melee tag.

Never said bleed stacks. Poison stacks bruh.

However, I will not argue atm that melee skills besides eq/cyclone are challenging to play with, but I don't play melee I'm order to make the game easy. I've played melee for almost 4yr because it's fulfilling and the most fun IMO :)

Playing a range class is like those kids on the block throwing rocks at the police and run away.
Bunch of cowards.
isnt that the spirit?

Melee changes incoming guys:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/5072v6/will_melee_be_addressed_in_atlas/

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Varkorium wrote:

Melee changes incoming guys:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/5072v6/will_melee_be_addressed_in_atlas/

I will buy their supporter pack if they actually do this right.

Its just funny how casters/ranged are tankier and have a higher damage potential at melee range than an actual melee character.

Right side of the tree > left side

Melee improvement feels like a dream. But a nightmare is arising in a form of making melee ranged.