"Never pay-to-win" Dishonest Marketing by GGG?

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Regulator wrote:

I personally despise it, but it works, not only by bringing new players in but keeping the "whales" (i_no is a perfect example of that) and the wk happy too.

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FelicityFlowers wrote:

Is it fair to say "Never Pay to Win" on the new Atlas of Worlds marketing: http://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/AtlasofWorldsFactSheet.jpg

I think obviously the premium stash tabs do not confer just a cosmetic in game appearance. I think the premium stash tabs confer a tangible in game advantage in that it makes currency ultimately easier to obtain. I am not saying it is impossible to be successful in game without the premium tabs - but they certainly make the in game experience and acquisition of currency much easier.

I think the premium tabs are paying to get an in game in advantage - which I think is the common interpretation of "Pay to Win". I'm not saying if it is good or bad business by GGG - or judging GGG for charging for the premium stash tabs - or commenting on the price of the tabs - or judging those who do or do not have premium tabs - but is it not misleading to now advertise as "Never Pay to Win"?

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Jerle wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

I personally despise it, but it works, not only by bringing new players in but keeping the "whales" (i_no is a perfect example of that) and the wk happy too.

Charan who has retired is the only true whale in this game. And there are quite a few others with more top tier support packs than me who might be considered whales. Your example was hardly close to one.

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Regulator wrote:

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Jerle wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

I personally despise it, but it works, not only by bringing new players in but keeping the "whales" (i_no is a perfect example of that) and the wk happy too.

Charan who has retired is the only true whale in this game. And there are quite a few others with more top tier support packs than me who might be considered whales. Your example was hardly close to one.

I mentioned i_no cause she was the first to reply and was an example, a good one too. There are a lot more people, that are considered whales in PoE. When you reach a certain amount of support you are in that category, there is no "one true". Support packs are not the only way for one to be considered a whale. Money are. And in different styles of games there are different thresholds for being a whale. Spending more than 50 USD in facebook games you are considered a whale. Spending money to buy supporter packs every time they are out = whale. Having spend more than 1k USD = whale.

Sure others spend more, but when you are in the category "ive spent over 1.5k USD and im sure or probably will spend more" you qualify.

So my example is a perfect one, she might be a smaller whale than you for example but a whale nontheless. Whale is someone who will spend money without much hesitation, and often extravagantly. They usually account for less than 5% of the player base but contribute 40%+ of a company's revenue. Im pretty sure there are quite few more than the one you mentioned, would you think?

@markww

You should relax a bit mate. Ive also spent some bucks to buy tabs (got 40 premium ones atm), but seeing things as they are never hurt anyone. Tabs are in a grey area, yes you cant "win" but pay2win isnt literal, it means that paying gives you some kind of advantage. I agree the advantage tabs give can be considered miniscule but its still an in game advantage and convenience too.

Having tabs means :

Extreme amounts of currency only use one tab (previously from a personal experience i used 5 tabs for currency only, a free player couldnt even hold that much with their 4tabs) - i already see an advantage

Premium tabs mean easier trading, aka easier way to sell shit, shit that a free player might not even be possible to hold in his tabs or at least not in the amount a person with tabs can. Another example : before buying tabs i usually only holded items worth 10+c in them and i was trying to sell everything else in trade chat, if i couldnt before my gaming session ended i vendored them. After buying tabs (and especially after premium getting the trade rework) i just put everything i believe it can be sold in them. In talisman HC i had 14 tabs with items for my shop only, in PHC 7 and in proHC 9. The seer amount of items means that even if i dont sell them all i probably still get more income than a free player due to that.

More space means you can hold those uniques to build your next character. A free player can only hold 1tab of very very gg uniques he likes.

So yeah tabs DO offer an advantage and thus can be considered p2w, no matter what GGG and every blind fanboy says on that, thats how things are.

There is the argument that free players can make other accounts or mule characters to counter the lack of space, but that is time consuming, and time = money, so again they are in a disadvantage vs paying players.

Dont get me wrong, i highly suggest anyone who can to buy tabs, but no matter how you see it, you cant completely say tabs dont belong on p2w, they are of a very controversial nature, you pay for a service that offers convenience and time-saving properties, thus having an advantage.

And yes while i really like GGG for providing PoE and holding on some values and ideals, they are simply dishonest when it comes to marketing, but again thats how marketing works, you give your best to hype and elevate your game, hiding possible "bad things" and making "good" ones look even better.