Change Elemental Rolls on 2H Weapons

This should seem like a pretty obvious design dependency but the rolls for Elemental damage are simply too low on the T1 Rolls, which is one reason no one uses them.

I find myself finding multiple T1 rolled items like this every league



but guess what ? It isnt even usable. Of course, the elemental rolls arent perfect, it isnt the best base nor does it have T1 attack speed, but lets say it did.

Calculate the DPS per elemental and add them together and you get your total DPS.

Lightning = 269/2 x 1.71 = 229.9

Fire = 251/2 x 1.71 = 214

Cold = 206/2 x 1.71 = 176.13

619 DPS on a Reaver Sword that has Tier 1 Elemental rolls with a Tier 1 attack speed roll for 27% attack speed (1.35 up to 1.71).

However the average 2H weapon is 1.25 base attack speed, soo lets use that instead because its more realistic in what youd find.

Average 2H Weapon DPS is about 1.25, with 27% attack speed its 1.58

Lightning = 269/2 x 1.58 = 212

Fire = 251/2 x 1.58 = 198

Cold = 206/2 x 1.58 = 162

The total is 572, soo youre looking at 572 on the average weapon and 619 on the best possible base. I dis-included the physical damage because its pretty irrelevant in a elemental scaling build.

Why is this an issue ? Because Oros Sacrifice exists, the other issue is the values arent even high enough to begin with to warrant going 2H elemental over physical as well.

Oros Sacrifice with top rolls is 774 elemental damage, not even counting the extra damage from frenzy charges and culling strike. This weapon costs a whopping 1 fusing to a chaos. It is substantially less rare than a multi T1 rolled Elemental weapon with Tier 1 attack speed yet it is substantially better than the average and even the best roll elemental weapon possible.

Another huge issue is the difference between 1H and 2H rolls and scaling. 1H elemental scales significantly higher because of attack speed, but the crazy thing is that a top rolled foil is only like 100 dps behind the average top rolled 2H.

1H Also suffers from the same issue though, which is one weapon completely pooping on top rolled elemental weapons. That weapon is Hyaons Fury.

Soo in conclusion, elemental rolls need to be looked over and you need to stop adding weapons which poop on rare weapons that are significantly more difficult to obtain than the listed uniques. Its part of the reason why power creep is soo prominent and why people have completely strayed away from crafting.

that's an amazing sword...
I know a Slayer that would be happy to behead stuff with it.

but yes I agree: Oro is more solid if you wish to go full (ele)mental.



the rule of T1 rares being better than uniques, should apply here as well.

+1

the elemental weapons in general are pretty.. binary.

you just do not do ele weapons if they are not fast 1handers. slow 1 handers and all 2 handers are auto-vendor. there is nothing helping them.

1) ele penetration is single-element but ele-weapons are multi-elemental
2) speed. most damage comes from auras/heralds/flat rolls anyway. so 2aps 1h with 150total flat damage will grossly outperform 1.25aps 400total flat two hander.
3) ele implicits (penetration on sceptres/%wed on bows) are very low and noone picks these weapons anyway as in most cases these are slow bases (check point2)
4) minimal support from the tree. melee nodes are 'melee phys', 'phys damage with something' etc. there are just a few nodes that apply to multielemental weapons. these are located near templar. class not exactly known from access to attack speed.
5) the best ele build is phys build. phys-to-lightning + other conversions + added fire and other stuff create 100% ele build with efficient tree scaling and easy gearing (you just pick any pre-rolled phys damage unique and you are set)

Actually, elemental rolls are junk on many 1-handed weapons, too. Wands, claws, rapiers - that's 3 weapon types than CAn take some use of elemental rolls.

Actually, whole mod system for weapons is just awful. You just want 6 "best" mods for all crit weapons (%physical, flat physical, hybrid physical, AS, crit chance and crit multiplier). For non-crit, you want first 4 mods. Any other mods are junk, intended to reduce your odds to get the "golden 6". Not to mention, odds for high-tier % physical and flat physical were intentionly lowered to abyssmal values.

slow weapons get the short end with flat sources of damage, something that will help a lot is adding an inate "flat multiplier" to weapons, this should boost flat sources of damage inversely proportional to attack speed.

this way +100 fire damage will scale with both weapon flat multiplier and attack speed.



uniques like oros could be balanced with a lower multiplier than average 2h.

It's not the local elemental rolls that are the problem... local ele rolls on 2handers compared to 1handers are roughly in line with physical damage on 2handers compared to 1handers.

The issue is non-local sources, i.e. the stuff from rings and amulets and heralds/auras and Static Electricity and all that jazz. 2handers get the same damage-per-hit from those as 1handers, which relative to the base damage and speed of a 2hander means non-local sources are much much weaker boosts for 2handers than they are for 1handers. THIS is the main reason no one does elemental with 2h (outside of Oro's). (It's also the reason physical 1handers can catch up to physical 2hander dps with proper gear... they can close the dps gap because they get better returns out of flat physical rolls elsewhere)


Really, what should happen is all non-local sources of flat damage (including physical) should get multiplied by about 1.5-1.7 when using a 2handed melee weapon, in the same way flat spell damage gets multiplied by a damage effectiveness when being added to spells. It's still gonna mean faster 2handers are better than slower 2handers for elemental, but it will at least mean 2hander will be roughly as good for elemental as 1hander.

Both Oro's and Hyaon's have have increased damage taken modifiers. I think they are supposed to be a tradeoff of more dps for less survivability.

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sidtherat wrote:

5) the best ele build is phys build. phys-to-lightning + other conversions + added fire and other stuff create 100% ele build with efficient tree scaling and easy gearing (you just pick any pre-rolled phys damage unique and you are set)

This is the sadest part.

+1 for trying to re make rare weapons significant, and not just vendor junk because cheap uniques do it better.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

Both Oro's and Hyaon's have have increased damage taken modifiers. I think they are supposed to be a tradeoff of more dps for less survivability.

This lol at people wanting to nerf oro.

The sword is already only used by flickers since it is very slow with attack speed.

Thing is, IF you raise the elem mods then you need to make them rarer to roll.

A sword like oro without drawback and with Lightning and cold mods would be more powerfull than a mirror phy sword.

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Head_Less wrote:

A sword like oro without drawback and with Lightning and cold mods would be more powerfull than a mirror phy sword.

You can always reach balance in between "useless" and "overpowered".
The fact is, ele,emtal damage rolls on 2-h are useless.