Is the lab a softcore design?

Hey,

i know a lot of softcore players think that hc players only play hc because they want a challenge.
I can say for myself, that i play hc because I prefer "safe/good" builds and also prefer the economy in hc. I find an item that is actually still something worth because there are less players in hc = more currency. I tried Sc again... but it just felt like dps is more important than survivability. (no offence meant)

To sum that up... I don't really want an additional challenge like that labyrinth.

In sc you can try the lab again and again even with a high lvl char (that just reached a new lvl).

High lvl Sc char: reach next level and do trials/uber lab for 7-8th AC point
High lvl Hc char: well try it ... or maybe it is better to not risk it...

Norm,Cruel,Merc lab Sc char: just go for it and risk some exp.
Norm,Cruel,Merc lab Hc char: do it and maybe you can start all over again

So my questions to HC players are:

1. Do you think that the labyrinth is a softcore desgin?
2. Am I the only Hc player that does not need an additional challenge? Do you like that additional challenge?
3. How many hc chars did you make since the lab has been introduced compared to the time before lab?
PoE probably has the best build-enabling system (diversity) of all arpg`s out there.
4. Do you think content ("forced" lab for AC points) that leads to less replayability (at least in hc) is a good content?
5. Would you be happy with an alternative way to ascent?

with a juggernaut you can close your eyes and hold down the move button to finish the lab

also you can simply not do it, you only have to do it once and you can pay someone to do it for you, how hard is that?

"

TheDeathX wrote:

1. Do you think that the labyrinth is a softcore desgin?

Lab is boring in SC, and also frustrating. In HC it is still frustrating, but definitely not boring!

"

2. Am I the only Hc player that does not need an additional challenge? Do you like that additional challenge?

I think there are many people who play HC but complain about how challenging parts of it are. I think those people are really softcore at heart. ;)
I like the additional challenge of the lab *in HC*. In sc it is just a build check.

"

3. How many hc chars did you make since the lab has been introduced compared to the time before lab?

About the same amount, except after the lab they were much more successful. Power creep ftw!

"

4. Do you think content ("forced" lab for AC points) that leads to less replayability (at least in hc) is a good content?

The lab doesn't lead to less replayability. Where did you get this information from?

"

5. Would you be happy with an alternative way to ascent?

Yes, very happy for my softcore characters that I could ascend without needing to run the lab a million times. However, I would then never do the lab in HC. So I guess gating ascendancy behind the lab has some benefits for me too.

"

1235 wrote:

with a juggernaut you can close your eyes and hold down the move button to finish the lab

also you can simply not do it, you only have to do it once and you can pay someone to do it for you, how hard is that?

This must be how the Unbreathing Queen gets her champions. People who just hold down the mouse button and blindly walk around, so they can never escape the first room!

1. Do you think that the labyrinth is a softcore desgin?

No. I don't think GGG would balance something so important specifically for sc players. Normal and cruel labyrinth are not challenging at all if you just overlevel. Merciless lab can be challenging, but again you don't have to do it as soon as you hit merciless act 3. Endgame labyrinth is difficult but personally I think it's completely fine to have content in the game that you're not supposed to be able to complete always with every build.

2. Am I the only Hc player that does not need an additional challenge? Do you like that additional challenge?

Playing hc is the additional challenge for me. I'm not sure what you're trying to ask.

3. How many hc chars did you make since the lab has been introduced compared to the time before lab?

Well obviously I've made more characters before lab was introduced because it hasn't been in the game that long. But it hasn't made me avoid rerolling if that's what you're trying to ask.

4. Do you think content ("forced" lab for AC points) that leads to less replayability (at least in hc) is a good content?

I don't agree that lab leads to less replayability. It might make you reroll and play less, but it doesn't mean it's objectively leading to less replayability.

5. Would you be happy with an alternative way to ascent?
Sure, why not. If they can come up with something that doesn't make the lab pointless but does make the lab haters happy.

.

"

TheDeathX wrote:

So my questions to HC players are:

1. Do you think that the labyrinth is a softcore desgin?
2. Am I the only Hc player that does not need an additional challenge? Do you like that additional challenge?
3. How many hc chars did you make since the lab has been introduced compared to the time before lab?
PoE probably has the best build-enabling system (diversity) of all arpg`s out there.
4. Do you think content ("forced" lab for AC points) that leads to less replayability (at least in hc) is a good content?
5. Would you be happy with an alternative way to ascent?

First: good post, ty.

My thoughts as HC-Temp league player:

1. Dunno, but I think its really bring a bit HC to Softcore, I thing I know what you mean

2. Well in general I have no prob with additional challenges at all, it's fine also for HC.
But I have a problem with things like that in a online game with technical behaviours that are not under user control. I have a low end comp and only a mediocre ISP - loosing chars cuz of FPS drops, lagging out or "Server choking" and shit like this is dumb. Period. To compare: I thought the Diablo3 decision was awesome, enraging Bosses, log out delay.
Very cool - in a single player game.

3. Dunno. Lab don't make me play more or less than before.

4/5. Well,thats not an argument at all for me. All things in a game are gated behind things, levelng, questing, farming, trading, mapping ... It's ok for me that the precious ascendancy points are gated. Is lab the way for it? At the current state, dunno, but I prefer that over giving that points just for e.g. Malachai kill in every difficulty.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

Lab is boring in SC, and also frustrating. In HC it is still frustrating, but definitely not boring!

I love poe, its my favorite game. I have over 6k hours of gametime. But the Lab is the worst content ever. I really try to like it, but i just cant do it. Whenever i do the lab i feel like quiting poe and do something else, its too long, too boring and too frustrating. Im always waaay overleveled when i do the lab, just so i can run through safely. I never play the Lab after i got my points, i would rather run 10h of white t1 maps with my lvl 88 char than 30min in the lab.

Please GGG, remove/redesign the lab, or at least move the points out of the lab so whoever wants do it can do it.

regards

-Zims-


edit:i have played poe for 6925 hours according to steam. I just died in uberlab (killed izaro, so i got the challenge, but not the points) Im not sure i will do it again. Lab is one of the reasons i dont want to make a new alt, so im not sure il hit 7k hours. The lab is really getting to me, sorry.

I love slaying monsters but i really really hate the lab and the idea behind it.
Imo it does not fit into the game at all, it just feels wrong and i don't want to deal with super mario stuff in a hack n slay game.

The worst part is, with the power creep going on you need to do them, otherwise you will be the last in the party picking up trash and getting no xp, because the rest is boosted like crazy.
With the ongoing technical problems, the freezes, stutterings and crashes, the lab just feels like a slap into the face of players with technical problems.

I lost my last 4-5? chars to disconnects, freezes and fails of my isp. If you loose your 6 links, voidhearts, vaaled amulets, belts and higher stuff to gamecrash related things in a new temp league you quickly get annoyed. If you are not a 12/7 streamer it is over and at some point players get tired and just quit.

At some point even the greatest fan turns away, loosing ongoing stuff without doing anything wrong is not acceptable. Leveling HC in that state is sadly nothing more than wasted time.
I left my clan and quit hc because of it and play something else, waiting for changes.
But to bhe honest i don't think they will be able to fix it.
After maybe far more than 6-8.000 hours playtime i hit the deadend because of fpsdrops and disconnects..

"

TheDeathX wrote:

To sum that up... I don't really want an additional challenge like that labyrinth.

Nice to see someone being honest about this. Most people try to pretend challenge doesn't have anything to do with the lab hate then they'll ask for an easier way to get points.

People have to understand the different ways to add difficulty

GGG uses the fake Difficulty scaler, they add tedious mechanics and one shots

the other way to add difficulty, the right but harder one, is to to add complexity