Trade is in a sad State

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SudianX wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

open beta kind of version.

I can attest to this. Since open beta I have gone on many a hiatus only to return to the same mess. I have made one trade in three years and will not repeat the experience.

Spoiler

It was before there was a player created listing site. Watching the trade chat for 10 minutes per day for a week (I could not stomach more at a time), finally finding a seller, waiting half an hour for him to finish his map, finally meeting in Act 1 (no hideouts yet)...

Spoiler

I cannot imagine what it was like during Perandus with the new lab! And now with the lower population?

Just no. No. Now I just start a new character when my old one hits ye olde gear-check wall. Some make it farther than others. Yay RNG. I did finally play my first map during Perandus. Nifty.

One time I came back and read that the game was no longer "in Beta." I still do not believe it.

Spoiler

Game is "balanced" around trading... yet no in-game item listing or searching... I can understand not wanting automated trading or asynchronous trading... but leaving it up to the players?

The most recent "trade improvement" is a paid stash tab? Meant to provide info to 3rd party software?

Sigh... It is about time for another hiatus :(

+1

Agree mate, though its like banging your head against the wall. Wall will still be there after an hour and you'll get a headache.
I expected someone like kamil boy be here in a split second, remember him from other trade posts, wheres goat though? You just alt tab, click copy, whisper fuck man how much easier it can be right?? Shouldn't even call them white knights, more like dumb knights.

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kamil1210 wrote:

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a person that wants to play 30minutes after work and has to wait for 15minutes to buy an item,

1. open poe.trade
2. find item you want
3. pm 20 ppl that have item u want
4. make trade in 1 minute.
It is no where close to 15 minutes.

IF this take too much of your playtime then plying build that require to buy items is not for you. There are self found build that you should try.

You can also try to manage your time so you can have longer play session.

You my friend have a great knack for irrelevance. Im sure you only read the bold part to make such a shallow comment. You actually find it ok to use a 3rd party "auction-house-like" site, waste your time pm people for an item, wait for anyone to answer (if they have the decency), complete the trade that can take way longer that your false "1minute", and then go and play. I ofcourse wont take seriously the rest of your post cause its an obvious sign that you have never worked in your life, plus you failed to understand the purpose.

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Prebornfetus wrote:

too much pure anger in this post regulator. You must be having an off day. You are right ofcoarse. The trade system is atrocious. Too many fucks in your post though. I dont approve

Not really, no. Anger is not the right word. More like disgust towards GGG's stance on the trade issue, and sympathy towards the poor super-casual players of perm HC (and in a lesser extend sc) league that cant enjoy the game on its fullest. Trading makes everyone's life so much easier, in a game GGG believes trading is a core element of it and still though the trade system/exprience is that of the paleolithic ages. And the perm leagues are no the only ones having to suffer this system, getting for example 5 whispers during one t12 map, is more likely that you either spent all your portals or tell them "after map" and probably lose all trades. People really dont put much thought how atrocious the trade system is, because they have something that is doing the basics.

A more fitting analogy would be : Trading in poe is like a power generator from the 1860's. It works, it does the basics, but there is a huge loss in energy and the maintenance is tedious. I doubt anyone if given the choice would use that power generator for electricity.

The "fucks" were only added as a way to make it more "memorable" as well as to underline the shitness of it. Sorry if you or others find the excessive usage of vulgarity offensive, disruptive and/or unnecessary, but it surely does serve a purpose. Seriously though, there was not even the slightest hint of anger in me when writing this even if it might seem so.

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raxleberne wrote:

You are beating dead horse.

While the metaphor is used right, you can also see it in another way too. I prefer acting even if its seen as pointless by others rather than sit there and doing nothing while the dead horse stinks in my corner.


Seeing some of the comments i cant but only realise that some of you have either way too few trade interactions, none at all, simply trolling or just gratuitously defending GGG. Not that there is anything wrong with the first two and its ok to practice SSF (as i have in the past and from time to time recently) but in doing so solely it forfeits you the right to talk about something you have no experience with. As for the latter you are a necessary evil at this stage

Trading is one of the worst things about this game. The fact that I have to wake up during European hours to try and get something on the cheap is ridiculous.

imagine they had integrated some comfortable ingame trading option, i don't think it's that hard to do given how they managed much more complicated implementations.

my guess is, they're afraid to break things, they can't find a solution that fits their ideas. they said the "selling over a master in your hideout" feature was nearly ready before they scrapped it according to chris. remember that they never wanted players specifying buyouts as this is bad for the game...

imho they're right in being careful, once they've done something it cannot be taken back. external solutions are the best way to implement them because they are the most flexible way of changing things in case they turn out bad.

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if you see the ingame economy from a balance point of view, it just works.

given that on average a player needs to buy 6 to 10 items in a temp league, he is able to comfortly do that. and given the fact that for every buyer there must be a seller, i was ever able to sell at least as much stuff as i bought. at least for me the system is in balance.

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so the main question here is: should a trading system make it too easy for players to sell masses of items quick (outside the trader npc)? should it allow those players with massive time to easily turn that advantage into profit by making them rich with no diminishing returns by having to invest time into trading?

there are so many mechanics in this game and all can be shortcut with networking and/or spending currency. trade is kind of the last bastion which can't be facerolled by everybody who is rich and has time.

SSf isn't even possible at this game, unless you are some kind of Rng god.
And certainly not on hc.

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vio wrote:

imagine they had integrated some comfortable ingame trading option, i don't think it's that hard to do given how they managed much more complicated implementations.

my guess is, they're afraid to break things, they can't find a solution that fits their ideas. they said the "selling over a master in your hideout" feature was nearly ready before they scrapped it according to chris. remember that they never wanted players specifying buyouts as this is bad for the game...

imho they're right in being careful, once they've done something it cannot be taken back. external solutions are the best way to implement them because they are the most flexible way of changing things in case they turn out bad.

---

if you see the ingame economy from a balance point of view, it just works.

given that on average a player needs to buy 6 to 10 items in a temp league, he is able to comfortly do that. and given the fact that for every buyer there must be a seller, i was ever able to sell at least as much stuff as i bought. at least for me the system is in balance.

--

so the main question here is: should a trading system make it too easy for players to sell masses of items quick (outside the trader npc)? should it allow those players with massive time to easily turn that advantage into profit by making them rich with no diminishing returns by having to invest time into trading?

there are so many mechanics in this game and all can be shortcut with networking and/or spending currency. trade is kind of the last bastion which can't be facerolled by everybody who is rich and has time.

Trading already gets manipulated all the time by rich people who have all the time in the world. You're high as a kite if you think otherwise.

+1.

Trade system needs a lot of improvements and fast !

To add to the stories i can say that even tho i dont play in HC league i had many similar stories. Including few good ones, where i've been whispered for an item, while in the middle of a huge fight. No more than 30 sec passed when i TP to town and invite the player, to be declined with a msg that he/she already got the item...
It happen to me several time, like wtf, do people think that everyone that sell items just sits in their hideout all day waiting to sell at the moment noticed ?

It really piss me off, especially when it happens while mapping

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allbusiness wrote:

Trading already gets manipulated all the time by rich people who have all the time in the world.

i'm aware of that. and it's a pretty difficult question: what difference does it make if the top 3% or the top 30% dominate trading?

currently the market is ruled by those who have the tech background, access to trade data, open or private evaluation tools, the knowledge to use them, the neccessary time and dedication for the game.

because at the moment trading itself is so tedious, market manipulation is restricted to top items which will never find their ways to the lower 80% of the player base.

things would change with automated trading, price manipulation would extend to lower priced items because the higher sales volume would generate more profit.

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the conclusion i draw from that is, trading for high priced top items needs to come with at a price to even the playing field.

OP unless you have access to numbers that we don't you shouldn't be making statements like "bleeding players" unless you are referring to someone actually being punctured in PvP or something. No don't use steam charts either, its a pathetic attempt at best to describe "trends"


30 min of total playtime isn't enough to really do anything in almost any game, dota games take longer, league games can take longer, hell even overwatch can take longer. 30 min isn't enough time to devote to any game that has or requires interaction with other players.

Just so you are aware there is at least one other site that you can use to find items, but I'm sure there are more as well. exiletra.de actually is quite nice, if you know how to use it, more people are using it so he has had some issues with the server I think.

However, don't fool yourself into thinking that GGG isn't working on improvements they are, constantly bitching about it or just throwing in the towel and saying we need an AH (which isn't what you said, it is commonly seen though) proves that people are frustrated, but simpler changes could be made, instead of massive changes. As long as there isn't automation you can't expect to hop on and buy any specific item super duper easily, this is actually a good thing because it should mean you actually want to find items instead of buying them.

A really quick thing to help solve issue with AFK is just allow afk status to report to poe.trade. Which people will exploit and then we be back a couple of steps again.