[2.3] 2MIL DPS (4MIL in theory) JUGGERNAUT New Era of COC DISCHARGE (Uber Atziri/ Core Deathless)

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lapilesos wrote:

Seems like good build.

Just wounder - all yours trees walk near Mind over Matter and you have 50% of mana unreserved. Is this possible to incorporate MoM in this build?

Cheers!

With PoF, Blasphemy(Enlighten 4) and Herald of Ice(no Enlighten), we only have 1xx mana left, my Cyclone cost about 29 mana, atk spd 0.28/sec with Blood Rage, so mana pool is a big problem with me. I bielieve we can't have that much mana unreserved.

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DkCf wrote:

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lapilesos wrote:

Seems like good build.

Just wounder - all yours trees walk near Mind over Matter and you have 50% of mana unreserved. Is this possible to incorporate MoM in this build?

Cheers!

With PoF, Blasphemy(Enlighten 4) and Herald of Ice(no Enlighten), we only have 1xx mana left, my Cyclone cost about 29 mana, atk spd 0.28/sec with Blood Rage, so mana pool is a big problem with me. I bielieve we can't have that much mana unreserved.

Indeed. But ditching out HoI with some ice damage on dagger and taking MoM will lead into more EHP.
Espetially having node that converts taked damage to mana (3% but still)

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lapilesos wrote:

Seems like good build.

Just wounder - all yours trees walk near Mind over Matter and you have 50% of mana unreserved. Is this possible to incorporate MoM in this build?

Cheers!

Hmm, I feel that 5500~6000 life is enough for every map content except some heavy hit bosses which are designed for player to self dodge.
Obviously, 5500~6000 life + 700 mana wont be enough to help me to facetank those heavy hit bosses such as Uber atziri flameblast.
Besides, the biggest downside of using MOM is, when my mana are all drained, then I cannot cyclone anymore till mana regen back. This means, I have no dps output, I have no 0 life gain from kingsguard in this time interval. This is dangerous. So I'd say better not to go MOM.

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DkCf wrote:

With PoF, Blasphemy(Enlighten 4) and Herald of Ice(no Enlighten), we only have 1xx mana left, my Cyclone cost about 29 mana, atk spd 0.28/sec with Blood Rage, so mana pool is a big problem with me. I bielieve we can't have that much mana unreserved.

1xx mana unreserved are pretty enough for clearing maps.
It might be an issue when u part in a long duration boss fight, the solution is to take off poacher's mark curse, so that u have more unreserved mana (and you can also use another curse with vengeance coh combo bcz u take off poacher's mark). If thats still not enough, I will bring a mana flask instead of silver flask which was wat I did in my core malachai fight video.

I explained which flasks I use in flask section on my guide. Check it out if you want. I strongly recommand to use diamond flask in ur setup.

Huh, am I missing something, how are you generating power charges to generate Endurance with Voll ammy?

Is there a reason Trypanon wouldn't work for this build? Seems to me not having to worry about getting crit chance passives would HUGELY free up your build. And unless something has seriously changed about how it works, Cyclone's "attack speed" has more to do with your MOVEMENT speed, not your actual attack speed. No more reaching all the way over to the Easternmost part of the duelist tree for twin terrors and whatnot. Of course using short spins for more attacks per second is a huge burden on your mana supply, but there's got to be a fix for that. Blood Magic would eat into your Health too much. Elreon's necklace to replace Voll's? Why do we even need Volls is we generate free endurance charges for ourselves?

Am I missing something here?

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lolPLSiGOTthis wrote:

Huh, am I missing something, how are you generating power charges to generate Endurance with Voll ammy?

Check my 6L gem setup

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Damon_Tor wrote:

Is there a reason Trypanon wouldn't work for this build? Seems to me not having to worry about getting crit chance passives would HUGELY free up your build. And unless something has seriously changed about how it works, Cyclone's "attack speed" has more to do with your MOVEMENT speed, not your actual attack speed. No more reaching all the way over to the Easternmost part of the duelist tree for twin terrors and whatnot. Of course using short spins for more attacks per second is a huge burden on your mana supply, but there's got to be a fix for that. Blood Magic would eat into your Health too much. Elreon's necklace to replace Voll's? Why do we even need Volls is we generate free endurance charges for ourselves?

Am I missing something here?

Yes, Trypanon works in this build.
You will take Undeniable instead of Unstoppable or Unyielding, and you can save some crit nodes on tree with Trypanon.
But let's face the truth that Royal skean has 230% more dmg than Trypanon by just comparing the 1.45 aps and 0.63 aps. Ofc movement speed affects more in clearing speed under the premise that you're dmg is enough to one shot every packs. But when we talk about single target dps, Attack Speed will play the role. Not to mention we can still have sp/ias/spell crit in dagger. Trypanon can work but it is a far weaker version.

Its not just like Im wasting many nodes to just merely get twin terrors, ok? MY TREE
After I spent 5 nodes on the path, I could get everything I need including Crit, life, movment, ias, flask nodes and a socket. Flask nodes are VERY helpful for fast clearing speed.

We use Poacher's mark curse aura for flask charges and mana gain on hit, and also mana leech enchantment on boots, so no, we alrdy dont have mana cost issue in map clearing.

And no, we still need voll's devotion cause 20% chance to self generate endurance charge is not enough for single targeting.

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aphrodite_1289 wrote:

But let's face the truth that Royal skean has 230% more dmg than Trypanon by just comparing the 1.45 aps and 0.63 aps. Ofc movement speed affects more in clearing speed under the premise that you're dmg is enough to one shot every packs. But when we talk about single target dps, Attack Speed will play the role. Not to mention we can still have sp/ias/spell crit in dagger. Trypanon can work but it is a far weaker version.

That's not what I meant about movement speed.

You get a "free" cyclone attack when you start your spin, which means your actual attacks per second is based more on how quickly you can get from the start of your cyclone to the end than on your actual "attack speed". It used to be where all the high-teir cyclone builds ignored attack speed all together because of this and focused entirely on movement speed, ultimately resulting in a "cast speed" that beat out even incinerate builds.

But maybe they changed how it works since I played last? I did notice they added "first spin deals 50% less damage" to the gem, presumably to help reign in exactly this behavior. However, in a COC build we don't really care about that, we just care about how quickly we can generate crits, so the 50% less damage shouldn't bother us at all.

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Damon_Tor wrote:

That's not what I meant about movement speed.

You get a "free" cyclone attack when you start your spin, which means your actual attacks per second is based more on how quickly you can get from the start of your cyclone to the end than on your actual "attack speed". It used to be where all the high-teir cyclone builds ignored attack speed all together because of this and focused entirely on movement speed, ultimately resulting in a "cast speed" that beat out even incinerate builds.

But maybe they changed how it works since I played last? I did notice they added "first spin deals 50% less damage" to the gem, presumably to help reign in exactly this behavior. However, in a COC build we don't really care about that, we just care about how quickly we can generate crits, so the 50% less damage shouldn't bother us at all.

You're partially right about it.

First of all, Sorry, I have to correct my previous post. I know the method of quickly resetting cyclone and used it in my video's, tho Im not really good at it. But the thing is I thought it was still 100% based on our tooltip aps which is wrong, that was why I said about 230% dmg.

So, I took some tests with Trypanon (tooltip 1.4 aps) vs dagger (tooltip 3.42 aps). The result is Trypanon setup hit 2 times per, and dagger setup hit 3 times per. looks like it still based on the tooltip aps, but I cant find a real formula about it.

According to the hit time diff, that should be 50% dps different. (I even tried a setup with 2.69 aps and it still hits 2 times per, so I can say Trypanon is limited to hit 2 times per, but I didnt test out with how much aps, we could reach 4 hit per. At least I still do 3 hit per with 6.0 tooltip aps.)

Besides, In my tree, I take flask nodes, and mv speed nodes which almost maximize my movement speed in this build. But with Trypanon, Im not sure how could you increase your movement speed.

There's another reason I didnt want to mention is about clearing speed which implies the usage of whirlblading. Thats one of the reason that many coc discharge builds use dagger and invest in attack speed.

Still, Trypanon works in this build. But Im not sure if its cheaper than two vagan daggers in temp league. To me, I wouldnt say Trypanon is a bad idea, but there are rly some downsides to make it work.

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