[2.6 / 3.0] BLADE VORTEX OBLITERATION
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Guys, I have one question regarding "Gain x% of Physical damage as extra Chaos damage".
If I have, for example, 100 flat Blade Vortex plysical damage + 100% of Physical damage gained as extra Chaos damage and I take a 10% hybrid Physcial+Chaos node from Shadow starting area, what will be the final damage? Are the following calculations right? 100*1.1 = 110 phys gain 110 as chaos damage, and then 110*1.1 = 121 chaos Final damage will be 110 phys + 121 chaos And what if I take a 10% increased Area damage node instead? Does it double-dip the same way when I have the same amount of "Gain x% of Physical damage as extra Chaos damage"? Thank you! Last edited by KaioNS on Feb 19, 2017, 7:24:27 AM
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" The first answer is yes, you will deal 110 phys + 121 chaos, those hybrid damage nodes in the shadow area are super effective, since they effectively double dip in that istance (and "triple dip" on poison, since it gets scaled once by phys and twice by the chaos portion). The area bonus doesn't double dip the same way, as far as I know. You will deal just 110 + 110. Area damage does double dip on poison though. Abyssal Volatile Poet: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2057243 MagicBlaster Deadeye: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2115343 Fortifier Aurabot: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2084465 Last edited by lallalaus on Feb 19, 2017, 6:08:32 PM
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@lallalaus: Thank you for your input!!!
Regarding leveling, what skill would you sugest to use and at which level? I was thinking of Firestorm, since it also scales with AoE and Increased Duration. On a 4L it would be: Firestorm (lvl 12) + Controlled Destruction (lvl 18) + Conc Effect (lvl 18) and Faster Casting (lvl 18) or maybe BV at lvl 12 + Added Fire + and then add Faster Casting + Controlled Destruction + Herald of Ash in Act 2. Maybe even add a Haste aura in act3, if not having mana problems. I'm planning use the Hidden Potential version as my league starter, since it has good damage scaling and is very cheap. | |
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Just level with blade fall totem and blade vortex. you need both anyways.
put blade fall totem in 6L tabula Blade vortex in 6L amplification rod just run through all content dropping totem use BV on boss. Should make 85 or so in 24 hrs. Git R Dun! Last edited by Aim_Deep on Feb 20, 2017, 7:32:47 PM
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" Thank you, Aim_Deep. Now regarding gem-links on BV setup. I've been doing some Excel calculations on how to optimize damage with this build (Hidden Potential version), and turns out that using Spell Echo is a huge loss damage-wise. It applies a 0.9 damage multipler on Blade Vortex damage, which then will be applied again on the poison damage, resulting effectively on a 0.81 multipler for poison, or 19% less poison dmg. And what do we get? Basically, a faster way to cast Blade Vortex. So I was thinking "What else I could fit in my 6-link instead of Spell Echo?" I came up with two different options: Increased Duration and Rapid Decay. Increased duration:
Spoiler
I have 90% increase duration on my skill tree. With this gem, both BV and poison now will have 164% increased duration, with a 20/20 gem.
So now BV will last 13.2 seconds (instead of 9.5) and Poison lasts 5.28 seconds (instead of 3.8). However, a longer lasting poison means a higher damage poison. Is spell echo, poison lasts 3,8 secs. 5.28/3.8 = 1,3895 So, with Increased Duration instead of Spell Echo, each poison applied lasts 38.95% MORE, which means 38.95% MORE poison damage. In the end, we remove the 10% LESS damage from Spell Echo (10% less on BV = 19% less on poison) and replace it with a 38.95% MORE damage for Poison exclusively. With this gem BV now lasts 13.2 seconds but we will be casting it slower than it would be with Spell Echo. Rapid Decay:
Spoiler
It gives 39% more DoT damage at level 20 and 15% reduced skill effect duration.
So with this gem, both BV and Poison will now have 75% increased duration, instead of 90%. New BV duration will be: 5*1.75 = 8.75 seconds New Poison duration will be: 2*1.75 = 3.5 seconds Reducing poison duration means less poison damage: 3.5/3.8 = 0,921 However, Rapid Decay also gives 39% more DoT damage. So if we applied a Poison that deals X dmg per second. After 3.8 seconds, we deal 3.8*X With Rapid Decay, now it will be 3.8*X*0,921*1.39 = 4,865*X (4,865*X)/(3.8*X) = 1,28 In the end, we remove the 10% LESS damage from Spell Echo (10% less on BV = 19% less on poison) and replace it with a 28% MORE damage for Poison exclusively. However, with this gem BV now lasts 8.75 seconds and we will be casting it slower than it would be with Spell Echo. So, if my calculations are right (please feel free to criticize), Increased Duration gem seems to be way better than Spell Echo for this build. Someone might say "But now you are casting your BV way slower!", and I say "Indeed. But how slower?"
Spoiler
In my setup with Spell Echo:
Casts per second: 4.52 Cast time: 1/4.52 seconds Time to reach 20 blades: 1/4.52*20 = 4.425 seconds BV duration: 9.5 seconds In my setup with Incrased duration: Casts per second: 2.66 Cast time: 1/2.66 seconds Time to reach 20 blades: 1/2.66*20 = 7.518 seconds BV duration: 13.2 seconds So, now BV will last longer but we will have to cast it more often during mapping. But how often? (7.518/4.425)/(13.2/9.5) = 1.223 = 22.3% more often. What do you guys think? We remove the double-dipping 10% LESS multipier from Spell Echo, and add a 39% MORE poison damage by increasing poison duration, but we will have to cast BV 22.3% more often during mapping Give me your thoughts! =) Cheers Last edited by KaioNS on Feb 21, 2017, 3:09:13 PM
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I've already talked about best gems setup in many posts, but I really appreciate you went through all the math and analyzed the problem in detail.
Spell Echo is not used for increasing your damage output, but to make the playstyle smoother, since it allows you to cast blades way faster and keep up an high amount of stacks easily, increasing significantly your clear speed (you have more than enough damage to kill everything even with 10% less damage). When you are fighting really hard bosses, you should swap it out in favour of Concentrated Effect. If you wanna go for the highest damage setup, it is the following: Blade Vortex - Controlled Destruction - Added Chaos - Concentrated Effect - Void manipulation - Iron Will/Empower (depending on the amount of STR you have). Both Iron Will and Empower (level 4) just boost your damage (initial hit and poison, without double dipping), with not quality of life benefits. Increased Duration does add some damage, but it builds up over time, since it just prolongs the duration of poison and allows you to mantain 20 stacks with more freedom. It's mostly used as a quality of life gem, not a straight damage boost. If you think you are gonna have troubles mantaining many BV stacks during the fight, this might be the best choice for you. Rapid decay is a bit meh. It boosts a lot your posion damage, while cutting the duration of your spell. It also does not influence your initial damage (blade vortex "on hit" damage) at all. Some people like it, but I do not think it's worth using. P.S. If you do not like spell echo damage penalty, but you wanna keep a smooth playstyle, you can simply use faster casting for general clearing. Abyssal Volatile Poet: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2057243 MagicBlaster Deadeye: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2115343 Fortifier Aurabot: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2084465 Last edited by lallalaus on Feb 22, 2017, 6:59:29 AM
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Thank you very much for your reply, lallalaus. It was very enlightening.
In fact, I wasn't considering that the xx% more poison damage offered by Increased Duration gem is only good during long fights, where you can easily stack lots of poisons stacks. On the other hand, Rapid Decay makes you poison "hit" harder per second, while making each BV and poison instances last less time. I will try out swapping Spell Echo to Faster Casting on hard bosses (where poison scales enough to be the biggest part of our damage) to see how it goes. Thank you once again! =) And a quick question: Do you guys have an idea of how expensive Hidden Potential jewels are very early in a league? Getting one during leveling would be extremely useful =) | |
" Early in the league it's pretty expensive, since it's not super common to find and extremely powerful to level new characters. Abyssal Volatile Poet: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2057243 MagicBlaster Deadeye: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2115343 Fortifier Aurabot: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2084465 Last edited by lallalaus on Feb 22, 2017, 4:15:12 PM
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DId you guys read the Manifesto?
I'm a bit afraid of how the AoE modifications will affect the explosion's area from Obliteration, since the only way to increased it's area is by stacking AoE nodes from the tree. Any guesses? | |
" bex repleyed to this on reddit " dont play the build(at least i made one lvled a bit but was to busy with other chars) but i saw bex ansering this so i tought ill C&P it here |
