[2.5] I Cast Magic Missile! - Cantrip's guide to Ethereal Knives. Rage Mage Edition!

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IsGX8Y6
Theme: Red Hot Chili Peppers - "Dark Necessities"

2.5 Update:
I'd probably use Vaal Pact and grab The Green Dream/Nightmare. Those work well together, and no problems with Frenzy Sustain then :).
Build still works, better than ever!


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Foreword:
Basic premise is, we go Non-crit EK, grab as much life as possible, and attain more than ok DPS in the process using Poison (hundreds of thousands - millions, depending on gear and buffs).
On top of Life, we have Temp Chains + Evasion + Acrobatics + Endurance Charges // Temp Chains + Armor + Endurance Charges, Life Regen, and RANGE. Possibly Hinder as well.

Also, Fortify, because apparently everyone needs it to not be dead and who needs variety anyhow?

On my gear at the end of Talisman, it'd be about... ~10 Mil at peak capacity, but that's squeezing HARD. Realistically, single-digit millions of DPS with Poison is very manageable with good gear.

DPS Estimate is HIGH. Assume 100k tooltip (and you'll have much more), that's actually 159k DPS + 929K Poison DPS assuming Temp Chains + Proj Weakness (less vs. bosses, but you have Vaal Haste / Vaal Lightning Trap / Flasks for those).

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F.A.Q

How does EK work?
EK = Ethereal Knives.
EK is a Spell, not an Attack! As such, it can only Leech Life/Mana with the Berserker Ascendancy, Life Leech Gem, using Doryani's Invitation (Physical Variant), or using Warlord's Mark.
It deals Physical Damage, it is not Elemental. On the tree, "Increased Physical Damage" works, but "Increased Physical Damage with Dagger/Staff/Wand" does not (since it's not using the weapon itself).
It's affected by +% Global Increased Physical Damage mods on gear like:

but not +% Local Increased Physical Damage like:

EK Scales best with Projectile Damage and the Physical+Chaos Damage passive from the Shadow start best in this particular build, due to Poison.

What scales Poison? How do I get such high DPS?
Glad you asked! Poison scales with Chaos Damage / Projectile Damage / Increased (Global) Damage / Frenzy Charges (+4% MORE per Charge) / Pierce (+30% MORE) / Aspect of Carnage (+40% MORE) / Vulnerability (+upto 42% MORE) / Projectile Weakness (+upto 71% MORE) / Shock (+50% MORE).
The last 3 stack together, rather than act as multipliers to each other, but the rest are multipliers.
As you may be aware, those all affect the base damage of EK, resulting in double-dipping. Be sure to grab as many of those as you can, or all of them!

What? No Hatred / Herald of Ash / Taste of Hate / Flat Damage on a Pure Physical build?!
Well, yes! Let's say you have 100k DPS for EK, pure Physical. Even if you add say 80% to that as Elemental? That's a drop in the sea compared to the Poison, which is several times that, and not subject to resist nearly as much. It's just not cost-effective, most it will do is inflate your tooltip and ego, rather than your actual DPS.

My DPS is low, what am I doing wrong? Help!
More than likely, your gems (and especially EK) are not fully leveled. Check your Jewels (Each should have Life + Projectile Damage + 1 damage modifier at least) - they add up to a good chunk of damage, like an extra wand or two. Do you have Winds of Change? How about your amulet, does it have DPS? Your Dagger has a good chunk of Spell Damage? How about your shield, and does it also have Master-crafted Cast Speed? You're using Blood Rage for Frenzy Charges, right? You've finished the Merciless Lab for +40% MORE damage?
And last, but not least, you obviously do less DPS on a Tabula rather than a 5L+ Cospri's Will.
DPS rises exponentially the more of those you have, so don't be discouraged if your poorly geared and low level character doesn't do godly DPS yet!
Spoiler
TJNncY6


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Tree:
Spoiler


Leveling:
Stage 1
Stage 2
Now, decide if you prefer Armor and Iron Reflexes, or Acrobatics.
I prefer Acrobatics, myself, but either works. If you want, you can get VP later on quite easily, and give up your Regen and Frenzy Charges (I don't suggest it).
Slowly fill out your tree at this point.

Example Final Acrobatics Tree = TREE

Example Final Armor Tree = TREE

Once your reach peak gear, you might need a few passives for Mana, like Primal Spirit, due to the limit on how fast you can leech Mana. Or not. Really depends on mana costs and cast speed...
The Armor build can run Righteous Fire fairly easily, just add the +1 Max Fire Res passive, Rise of the Phoenix and Purity of Fire, if that's your kind of thing. Iron Will seems fitting to the Armor version, as well.

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Gear-wise, use Lifesprig => Reverbration Rod => Geofri's Crest => Tabula Rasa. Grab some INT/DEX gear for leveling until you have the points, and grab some Mana passives.




Bandits:
Normal: Oak
Cruel: Kill All
Merciless: Kraityn

Ascendancy (Berserker):
Normal Lab: Pain Reaver
Cruel Lab: Crave the Slaughter (or War Bringer and respec later)
Merciless Lab: Aspect of Carnage
End-game Lab: War Bringer

GET SOME INTELLIGENCE ON YOUR GEAR OR YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO LEVEL YOUR GEMS!

Links:
EK Links (by order of importance):
EK / Faster Casting / Spell Echo / Pierce / Poison / Controlled Destruction. If you have a chest that adds Free Pierce / Poison, add Empower, Iron Will or Added Chaos.
4L = CwDT (high-level) / Increased Duration / Immortal Call / Stone or Flame Golem
4L = Increased Duration / Vaal Grace / Vaal Haste / Enduring Cry
4L = Whirling Blades / Faster Attacks / Fortify / Blood Magic
3L = Lightning Warp / Frenzy / Blood Rage
3L = Blasphemy / Projectile Weakness / Temporal Chains (or Vulnerability, or Grace)

or on a Sceptre:
4L = CwDT (high-level) / Increased Duration / Immortal Call / Stone or Flame Golem
4L = Increased Duration / Vaal Grace / Vaal Haste / Blood Rage
4L = Leap Slam / Faster Attacks / Fortify / Blood Magic
3L = Abyssal Cry / Void Manipulation / Poison (replace with Inc AoE later) or Frenzy
3L = Blasphemy / Projectile Weakness / Temporal Chains (or Vulnerability, or Grace)

GET SOME INTELLIGENCE ON YOUR GEAR OR YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO LEVEL YOUR GEMS #2!

Gear:
Chest = Cospri's Will. Tabula Rasa until you can get one, even on HC. It's been done, relax.
Gloves = Winds of Change
Boots = Atziri's Step (Acrobatics) / Rare boots (Armor build, Life + Res + Armor) / Windscream (until you get Cospri's, if you want double-curse early)
Head: Rare (Life + Res + Evasion/Armor)
Main-hand: Dagger (Spell Damage + Resist + Attack Speed) / The Dark Seer / Doon Cuebiyari / Singularity
Off-hand: Shield (Life + Spell Damage + Cast Speed (Master-craft) +Resist)
Belt: The Retch / Rare (Life + Res)
Rings: Rares (Life + Res)
Amulet: Hinekora's Sight / Victario's Acuity / Rare (Life + Cast Speed + Spell Damage + Res)
Flasks: Atziri's Promise, Quartz + Jade / Granite + Basalt, Sulphur, Life Flask.
Jewels: Life + Projectile Damage + Damage mods / Resist / Intelligence. Try to avoid too much Cast Speed on Jewels, it will affect mana costs per second.

GET SOME INTELLIGENCE ON YOUR GEAR OR YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO LEVEL YOUR GEMS #3!

Enchantments / Vaal:
Helmet: Yeah, good luck with that. EK Damage / EK Proj Speed / Curse Effect / Enduring Cry Effect / Golem Effect are some of the best options.
Gloves: Vulnerability on Hit (level 11+, preferably) / XXX of Spite / XXX of Light / XXX of Reflection / XXX of War / XXX of Blades.
Boots: +1 Frenzy / % Attack and Cast Speed if Killed Recently / Regenerate % of Life and Mana per second if you were Hit Recently / % chance to Dodge Spell Damage if you've taken Spell Damage Recently.
Amulet: +1 Curse. Bloody Good Luck!

Notes:
Spoiler

Alternate Chest: Lioneye's Vision (if you can't grab a Cospri's Will, but be aware you'll need a LOT of off-color), or a Tabula (maybe with +1 gems, which isn't expensive, and will last you until whenever, really!).

Moonbender's Wing + Phys to Light gem = 100% Elemental Damage. Useful for Physical Reflect maps... Be sure to replace Poison with another gem, like Faster Projectiles. You might be able to do Double-reflect with this setup, too, depending on DPS.

Be sure to grab some Intelligence on gear to be able to use your gems :)


Other possible links = Righteous Fire (self-cast) / Frost Wall on CwDT.

You can use a Vinktar's to Shock enemies (just be sure to have a Grounding Flask). For the highest tiers of maps, this should help squeeze some more DPS for bosses.

Basalt / Jade / Sulphur are far from essential. Unless you mean to run RF as a Nova Skill, and then Sulphur + Enduring Cry makes it so easy :D

If you're feeling frisky, use Righteous Fire! With Enduring Cry and maybe a Sulphur Flask on, you can maintain it! Replace Lightning Warp with it, I guess. It will hurt like hell if you miss a step, so careful.

On that note, with Purity of Fire and Rise of the Phoenix, this IS a Righteous Fire build. At least, the Armor version is. I feel it's too limited to use in maps that have mods, but if that's your thing, go ahead!

As Dodge, you get almost capped Dodge even without Vaal Grace, so consider dropping that if you're using all the Dodge gear. I don't suggest it, though...

If you get Gloves with Vulnerability on Hit, you can use Grace or another Aura instead.

If you've noticed, I offer several unique Sceptres as an option. If you want more DPS and Life/Blind, those will do GREAT, just be sure to use Leap Slam!

As the Armor build, use Molten Shell on CwDT, maybe Vaal Lightning Trap instead of Vaal Grace, and skip Lightning Warp or Frenzy. Lightning Warp on the second set is fine since you only need it rarely, just be sure to keep buffs OFF the weapons/shield!

If you decide Whirling Blades isn't for you for some reason, get Leap Slam instead of that, and use one of the sceptres I suggest. Singularity pairs well with Abyssal Cry, which does a HUGE amount of damage on this build - and it also Poisons and Leeches Life and Mana. No need for Lightning Warp in that case, but you'll need a Quicksilver Flask for parties.
That means you move Blood Rage to where Enduring Cry is, remove LW, and use Abyssal Cry + Void Manipulation. Might consider removing Frenzy for another link on that, like Increased AoE.

You can modify the tree to use just about any spell, so feel free to do so. Incinerate / Blade Vortex / Bladefall come to mind as easy candidates with just minor tweaks (Armor-only as Blade Vortex / Bladefall).

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If you haven't read the Marauder origin story: HERE
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Credit:
Art by - charro-art (deviantART), Aaron A. Fimister.
I Cast Magic Missile! - poeurl.com/DHE
Last edited by CantripN on Dec 13, 2016 5:19:13 AM
Last bumped on Apr 23, 2017 1:30:11 AM
What do you think about the new assassin changes for EK? I know you've been around for ages and never considered crit EK, but when I watch your 2.0 or 2.1 video, the build looks painfully slow.

I have been a fan of EK since 2013 but sadly, the skill has been overshadowed and considered one of the worst spells in the game because every other skill can do it better (apart from rain of arrows or something). Now for prophecy, regardless of how average it is, I want to dive into this since I never played EK since the introduction of Spell Echo into the game.

Now just to give you some brief info, I like to play my builds with ultra movespeed. I had a 150% movespeed phasing raider using voltaxic which I was having alot of fun with (with quicksilver up), but it got 1 shot by malformation+damage mods piety. Now I am trying to relive that speed with EK.

From the new berserker's point of view, damage wouldn't really be lacking, but if I go assassin, I can drop the poison gem and pick up empower or something and then try to go for more power charges. This however wouldn't net me enough survivability if I opt for frenzy and power charges around the area. As this would be my final endgame build though, I would like to transit this into a lowlife variant or CI to boost the damage even more. (Not a fan of life builds these days because of flask restrictions)


As for a raider variation, I can do the whole phase acro shenanigans but I play on HC so getting oneshot by some unlucky random flying object would really suck.

What are your thoughts on berserker as a whole? If I ever play it HC, I would go for the iron reflexes path because I wouldn't put my life in the hands of RNG. Will the clear speed be good enough? Will the movement speed be spectacular? I want a playstyle where I pop quicksilver+onslaught, walk super fast (I don't like using whirling blades for movement, I do just because of fortify but I would pretty much rather walk on foot), throw out 1 EK and just go to the next pack.

You have been the master of EK since the beginning, would like to hear your thoughts on this.
First of all, thanks for posting the questions here, rather than by PM, makes it easier for others to understand, too :).

So, I'll answer in points:

* 2.3 Assassin changes *
tl;dr = Crit is squishy and relies on player skill and reflexes to not die. It obviously has more DPS.
Spoiler
Well, the +100% MORE Poison damage certainly is a huge buff, and it's not like it was a weak option before. Makes it a no-brainer if you want to do a Crit EK caster, for sure. I'm not a fan of Crit EK, as you know, but certainly not due to a lack of clear speed!

Crit EK would have more DPS than this build, no question, and it would be able to move faster and clear faster overall and even rely on Flasks for movement if that's your thing (not that you can't here, it's just a tad harder before you have really good gear and leveled gems).

Why not do it, then?
Due to the nature of Crit casters, even on an Assassin, you simply have to spend more points to get a decent (95%) Crit Chance / Damage, which in turn makes it have a lot worse Life, from 7K down to maybe 4.5K with the best gear and super-high level.
Reflect is also a major issue, as you WILL die to every single Rare with the mod as Crit.
Crit also has to be a Tempo build, keeping up Power Charges (even more so as an Assassin) or it's damage falls down to lower levels than this build has (by a LOT).
It's also considered to be a must to use Vaal Pact to not die due to the low Life pool as crit, which rules out Frenzy Charges (unless using Victario's Acuity which I'm not sure is available as easily on Prophesy, or Atziri's gloves and Blood Rage), which makes you lose quite a bit of DPS.
Add to that the fact that you have a huge opportunity cost for Crit (you lose the glove slot for Facebreaker, your amulet and gear will need Crit modifiers, making it a lot harder if not impossible to get 169 resists, you lose the afore-mentioned Frenzy Charges, and support gems for non-crit EK are all too good to skip so you often use the same ones even as Crit).

Can you make it to 100 with Crit EK?
Absolutely! Quite a few people I know have done so. Would I recommend it for HC? Only if you're Mathil.


* Clear Speed *
tl;dr - Clear speed is a lot better than you'd expect!
Spoiler
Clear speed is actually top-tier Solo, and only slows down a tiny bit in large parties that have bad builds in them. EK has gotten so many buffs since you've last played it, it's a LOT faster than you think. Of course, this is assuming you have good gear, etc.
Do I suggest using Flasks for movement? Not until after the Merciless Lab, at the very least. Whirling Blades will be a lot faster, either way.


* Low-life or CI Crit *
tl;dr - It works, not a lot better than life even with GREAT gear.
Spoiler
CI is a bad idea, imo. You end up with only slightly better defences than this build (assuming good Leech + VP + really high ES pool), if that, and you have less DPS than a Life build. Given top-tier gear, it WILL work great, of course.
As for Low-life, that's obviously the most DPS possible, and also harder to gear for while keeping a decent ES pool. Again, given god-tier gear, it's viable.
Either way, as a Life build, you don't rely on Flasks as much as you think, either due to VP (Crit), or Huge Life Regen (here).

By the way, you can actually get VP for 1 point if you like on the Armor build. It clashes with the free Regen from Berserker, and makes you lose out on Blood Rage, but it's an option I'll explore. Unless the Recover actually means you can use it with VP? Then I'd give it very serious thought! Might even go for it as Acrobatics if that works (and use a tree a lot like the Armor one). Again, worth a try. In fact, as VP, I'd get Cloaked in Savagery!


* Raider *
tl;dr - Nope.
Spoiler
No. Bad idea. If you want to max movement speed, go Pathfinder Crit EK. That will work, and save you the Poison gem (which is a bit redundant with the new chest, but hey). Less DPS than Assassin, but it will move faster. You won't get one-shot by anything random with 7K Life + Acro. You will die if you're being stupid, as usual.


* Armor vs Evasion and Acro *
tl;dr - Armor bad, Acrobatics (and some Evasion) good!
Spoiler
Armor has the benefit of allowing you to, maybe, possibly, not die to Reflect Maps if you're stupid enough to forget to change to Elemental for those. For large hits, Armor won't much help you unless you have a LOT of it (and Evasion/Acro also work for this), and for small hits both defences are so good you more or less ignore those. I think the Acro version is the far safer one, and it also has more DPS.
Do I recommend spamming into a Reflect Rare without thinking? Heck no. You'll be able to survive a few seconds of that, no more, once your DPS is high enough. Even with Armor, that WILL kill you if you over-do it (only really possible in large parties).

Armor also has zero defense against spells, which are a good chunk of the risk. I view that as the best reason to go Acrobatics. Spell Block, while viable, will require a lot more investment, ending up with far less DPS.




I Cast Magic Missile! - poeurl.com/DHE
Last edited by CantripN on May 27, 2016 7:44:49 AM
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Completed 11 ChallengesCantripN wrote:
First of all, thanks for posting the questions here, rather than by PM, makes it easier for others to understand, too :).

So, I'll answer in points:

* 2.3 Assassin changes *
tl;dr = Crit is squishy and relies on player skill and reflexes to not die. It obviously has more DPS.
Spoiler
Well, the +100% MORE Poison damage certainly is a huge buff, and it's not like it was a weak option before. Makes it a no-brainer if you want to do a Crit EK caster, for sure. I'm not a fan of Crit EK, as you know, but certainly not due to a lack of clear speed!

Crit EK would have more DPS than this build, no question, and it would be able to move faster and clear faster overall and even rely on Flasks for movement if that's your thing (not that you can't here, it's just a tad harder before you have really good gear and leveled gems).

Why not do it, then?
Due to the nature of Crit casters, even on an Assassin, you simply have to spend more points to get a decent (95%) Crit Chance / Damage, which in turn makes it have a lot worse Life, from 7K down to maybe 4.5K with the best gear and super-high level.
Reflect is also a major issue, as you WILL die to every single Rare with the mod as Crit.
Crit also has to be a Tempo build, keeping up Power Charges (even more so as an Assassin) or it's damage falls down to lower levels than this build has (by a LOT).
It's also considered to be a must to use Vaal Pact to not die due to the low Life pool as crit, which rules out Frenzy Charges (unless using Victario's Acuity which I'm not sure is available as easily on Prophesy, or Atziri's gloves and Blood Rage), which makes you lose quite a bit of DPS.
Add to that the fact that you have a huge opportunity cost for Crit (you lose the glove slot for Facebreaker, your amulet and gear will need Crit modifiers, making it a lot harder if not impossible to get 169 resists, you lose the afore-mentioned Frenzy Charges, and support gems for non-crit EK are all too good to skip so you often use the same ones even as Crit).

Can you make it to 100 with Crit EK?
Absolutely! Quite a few people I know have done so. Would I recommend it for HC? Only if you're Mathil.


* Clear Speed *
tl;dr - Clear speed is a lot better than you'd expect!
Spoiler
Clear speed is actually top-tier Solo, and only slows down a tiny bit in large parties that have bad builds in them. EK has gotten so many buffs since you've last played it, it's a LOT faster than you think. Of course, this is assuming you have good gear, etc.
Do I suggest using Flasks for movement? Not until after the Merciless Lab, at the very least. Whirling Blades will be a lot faster, either way.


* Low-life or CI Crit *
tl;dr - It works, not a lot better than life even with GREAT gear.
Spoiler
CI is a bad idea, imo. You end up with only slightly better defences than this build (assuming good Leech + VP + really high ES pool), if that, and you have less DPS than a Life build. Given top-tier gear, it WILL work great, of course.
As for Low-life, that's obviously the most DPS possible, and also harder to gear for while keeping a decent ES pool. Again, given god-tier gear, it's viable.
Either way, as a Life build, you don't rely on Flasks as much as you think, either due to VP (Crit), or Huge Life Regen (here).

By the way, you can actually get VP for 1 point if you like on the Armor build. It clashes with the free Regen from Berserker, and makes you lose out on Blood Rage, but it's an option I'll explore. Unless the Recover actually means you can use it with VP? Then I'd give it very serious thought! Might even go for it as Acrobatics if that works (and use a tree a lot like the Armor one). Again, worth a try.


* Raider *
tl;dr - Nope.
Spoiler
No. Bad idea. If you want to max movement speed, go Pathfinder Crit EK. That will work, and save you the Poison gem (which is a bit redundant with the new chest, but hey). Less DPS than Assassin, but it will move faster. You won't get one-shot by anything random with 7K Life + Acro. You will die if you're being stupid, as usual.


* Armor vs Evasion and Acro *
tl;dr - Armor bad, Acrobatics (and some Evasion) good!
Spoiler
Armor has the benefit of allowing you to, maybe, possibly, not die to Reflect Maps if you're stupid enough to forget to change to Elemental for those. For large hits, Armor won't much help you unless you have a LOT of it (and Evasion/Acro also work for this), and for small hits both defences are so good you more or less ignore those. I think the Acro version is the far safer one, and it also has more DPS.
Do I recommend spamming into a Reflect Rare without thinking? Heck no. You'll be able to survive a few seconds of that, no more, once your DPS is high enough. Even with Armor, that WILL kill you if you over-do it (only really possible in large parties).

Armor also has zero defense against spells, which are a good chunk of the risk. I view that as the best reason to go Acrobatics. Spell Block, while viable, will require a lot more investment, ending up with far less DPS.






How would a berserker deal with single reflect and double if it appears? Just from the huge lifepool alone?


My concerns are for the start of the league problems with EK, where gem levels are low and 6L isn't all that available. And I can see that the skilltree doesn't have much attack speed nodes as EK is a spell, naturally cast speed is the way to go, I currently play a CI COC Discharge trickster and I even feel that the whirling blades speed is slow with so much attack speed.

I am a tempo based player, gotta go fast or else I'll end up falling asleep or getting bored fast. The pathfinder suggestion is alright, which nodes would you take if you were to go pathfinder? Master alchemist, Nature's adrenaline and master herbalist?



As for your CI argument, how is it worse than life? If I go assassin and go towards the witch tree, with just average gear and jewels I will be able to get 10k es easily with VP. And with better gear maybe 12k? In what way would I have lower dps as CI? Most projectile damage nodes and physical are around the shadow tree.
http://poeurl.com/DD9

Thought about something similar. Actually planing on picking up one or even two Mings Heart for even more damage. Also I would pick up the pierce nodes by Shadow because EK does not pierce by default even if it sometimes looks like that.

Links planned are: EK - Echo - Controlled - Pierce - Poison - Added Chaos/Empower/Something Else

edit: Also with the wand changes I would not rule out using a wand because of cast speed and proj speed.
Last edited by tzuiop on May 27, 2016 7:48:24 AM
As CI you end up using gear with ES. That means no Winds of Change, probably a worse Spell Shield, and you lose out on a 7L chest. Tree is probably a bit less DPS than a Life Crit, too.

Single Reflect won't kill you on a Rare, and on a map you convert 100% to Elemental. Double Reflect is a no-go no matter what kind of EK build you have, Crit or no.

As for Attack Speed, the Berserker actually gives you quite a lot of Attack Speed, and so do the Frenzy Charges! Not to mention, Blood Rage gives Attack Speed.

As Pathfinder... depends if you have the chest with free Poison, I guess. But I haven't played enough with that kind of build to give proper advice on the tree. At most, I can give a good educated guess.
This should work for a Crit EK build, on Life (at least, it's one way to do it, with Double Void Battery. Might even be HC viable, just careful with Reflect.) - TREE
I Cast Magic Missile! - poeurl.com/DHE
Last edited by CantripN on May 27, 2016 8:15:19 AM
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Completed 26 Challengestzuiop wrote:
http://poeurl.com/DD9

Thought about something similar. Actually planing on picking up one or even two Mings Heart for even more damage. Also I would pick up the pierce nodes by Shadow because EK does not pierce by default even if it sometimes looks like that.

Links planned are: EK - Echo - Controlled - Pierce - Poison - Added Chaos/Empower/Something Else

edit: Also with the wand changes I would not rule out using a wand because of cast speed and proj speed.


I see it's a very similar tree, except no Iron Reflexes nor Acrobatics. I'm assuming you're not planning on staying alive long? It might work if you go with Armor based gear and a Lioneye's for a chest.

I wouldn't bother with getting the top part of your build, since any damage that doesn't double-dip is a waste of points.

You end up with 100% Pierce just from Pierce Gem + Projectile Weakness... Those passives are a waste. Also, you really wouldn't feel the lack of Pierce except on HUGE Allies Cannot Die packs.

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I'll say this as many times as it takes. Ming's Heart is a terrible item.
Not only does it not have Life and Resists, it actually lowers it! Ming's Heart is a terrible item.
If you want to go all glass-cannon, go right ahead, I just think it's foolish. Ming's Heart is a terrible item.
If you use 2 x Ming's, you'll get close to the DPS of a Crit build, and more or less the same level of Life. That means you need VP, and really, at that point, you might as well go Crit Assassin.

Wands are better for DPS 100%. Problem is lack of Whirling Blades + Fortify, and the fact you will never get enough INT to use a good base, so you're very limited in getting a usable Wand. You really don't need more than the +110% Projectile Speed you already have.

I Cast Magic Missile! - poeurl.com/DHE
Last edited by CantripN on May 27, 2016 8:01:53 AM
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Completed 11 ChallengesCantripN wrote:
As CI you end up using gear with ES. That means no Winds of Change, probably a worse Spell Shield, and you lose out on a 7L chest. Tree is probably a bit less DPS than a Life Crit, too.

Single Reflect won't kill you on a Rare, and on a map you convert 100% to Elemental. Double Reflect is a no-go no matter what kind of EK build you have, Crit or no.

As for Attack Speed, the Berserker actually gives you quite a lot of Attack Speed, and so do the Frenzy Charges! Not to mention, Blood Rage gives Attack Speed.

As Pathfinder... depends if you have the chest with free Poison, I guess. But I haven't played enough with that kind of build to give proper advice on the tree. At most, I can give a good educated guess.
This should work for a Crit EK build, on Life (at least, it's one way to do it, with Double Void Battery. Might even be HC viable, just careful with Reflect.) - TREE


Is running vaal pact on a life based build wise? After all, theres 194% max life in the tree, if I take the 3 nodes at Growth and decay thats 2.8% life regen, go down to heart of oak and thats 3.8% for blood rage degeneration issues. Or even pick up Sanctity for that 1%

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAYBALDYotmEojIyyBQHmRCS9W9Z8NmGaoxMjrxvFr8mlWHiVUuMNonTcFIqC13yDkjjhLcwEZYN0RvI6FoHHn_GY0PP3TY9JoiVLqKj8YqdqvDVwfNsjI_6SVGVIGKs6_VrFy0ftMXDCbzqTLPC7LmTwFSuswQH0B8gbgW18h0I9GpDQZaD2-_rUDCNvwVC0PVVxtteUUfUIyycOlgwfDfU51QwcREtjX3tPyT93ah8gyP2_95LeOvuTZI6QprgHNwy0UWdjxpFR1NStQTAZuQiBLMpTxps1aaiAGu37Dg26fAfhX062IV7JKonL2ZUFm-QVeNqGjho8lWFpcs-z73m
Last edited by Nyxy on May 27, 2016 12:46:07 PM
Also an option, for sure. On that build you should have over 5.5-6k life, so maybe? The problem remains with Power Charge sustain, and Life Leech / Mana Sustain.

It's probably even easier to make a MoM / ZO / EB Crit caster, and not worry about mana costs at all. No chance of Blood Rage then, of course.

---

Anyhow, that's quite a bit off topic :D
I Cast Magic Missile! - poeurl.com/DHE
Last edited by CantripN on May 27, 2016 2:17:27 PM
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Completed 11 ChallengesCantripN wrote:
I see it's a very similar tree, except no Iron Reflexes nor Acrobatics. I'm assuming you're not planning on staying alive long? It might work if you go with Armor based gear and a Lioneye's for a chest.


I played characters with less life and armor and they survived perfectly well. Also I still have the option to pick up a Coil since I am not the one cursing.

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Completed 11 ChallengesCantripN wrote:
I wouldn't bother with getting the top part of your build, since any damage that doesn't double-dip is a waste of points.


Probably that is the most debatable for me too. I could swap it and go for more defense via Acro i.e. not sure what exactly to do with it, may even just decide it while playing.

I will probably end with something that looks more like this. poeurl.com/DKB

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Completed 11 ChallengesCantripN wrote:
You end up with 100% Pierce just from Pierce Gem + Projectile Weakness... Those passives are a waste. Also, you really wouldn't feel the lack of Pierce except on HUGE Allies Cannot Die packs.


I usually play in a party of at least two and the first two curse are always Enfeeble and Temp Chains. Third is usually the curse that provides the most damage for the party, so I maybe can hope for Vulnerability. So I need those pierce nodes. The extra life from the party also makes packs more durable. You start to notice those AoE clear things.


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Completed 11 ChallengesCantripN wrote:
I'll say this as many times as it takes. Ming's Heart is a terrible item.
Not only does it not have Life and Resists, it actually lowers it! Ming's Heart is a terrible item.
If you want to go all glass-cannon, go right ahead, I just think it's foolish. Ming's Heart is a terrible item.
If you use 2 x Ming's, you'll get close to the DPS of a Crit build, and more or less the same level of Life. That means you need VP, and really, at that point, you might as well go Crit Assassin.


Of course do I trade survivability for damage and it is trading in huge chunks. And as you say it is the decision towards damage similar to a crit build but I do not have the drawbacks. If I can deal with reflect before putting on a Mings Heart, I can do so afterwards. I only add extra chaos damage, the reflect amount I have to eat remains the same. Actually I get proportionally more leech. Even with two Mings Hearts equipped I still have 169% life in my current tree. Also the added chaos damage profits from the shadow phys/chaos nodes a great deal.
I will surely test with Mings Hearts, it is not like that they are expensive. And I like to have good chaos res.

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Completed 11 ChallengesCantripN wrote:
Wands are better for DPS 100%. Problem is lack of Whirling Blades + Fortify, and the fact you will never get enough INT to use a good base, so you're very limited in getting a usable Wand. You really don't need more than the +110% Projectile Speed you already have.


Yeah for the good wands my Int is probably way too low and bases will matter a lot more with 2.3 it seems. Maybe it is going to be a dagger after all. Still I would like the proj speed. Since I will only get up to around 80% since I dislike Winds of Change. I really dislike reduced movement speed on items. Maybe I pick up an Victarios Acuity later if those drop in 2.3. Onslaught is at least a popular Zana Mod when it is in the rota.
Last edited by tzuiop on May 27, 2016 6:31:42 PM

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