[2.3] TheoryCrafting Staff juggernaut CoC discharge

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fanimala wrote:

%Chance to hit + % Chance to crit on hit + % Chance to cast on critical + Chance to gain max power charges

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= not enough consistent dmg

- you lose 1 socket for even less dmg


I dont know if its worth going for juggernaut for this "gain max charges" thing without volls atm

Yeah that has been my concern from the start. All of the discussion has brought some good ideas to the table, so when I make an actual build guide and plan I'll put all of the best possibilities there. In testing it functions decently well too, with only a couple of them at a time. With the juggernaut node I actually do have faith in the build. You are right in that all the chances to have things happen hinders the build. But I'm decently confident that the fact that 1 end charge = max endurance charges (7) will compensate for the stacking chance mechanics that I'm using.

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ShadowStyle wrote:

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fanimala wrote:

%Chance to hit + % Chance to crit on hit + % Chance to cast on critical + Chance to gain max power charges

_____________

= not enough consistent dmg

- you lose 1 socket for even less dmg


I dont know if its worth going for juggernaut for this "gain max charges" thing without volls atm

Yeah that has been my concern from the start. All of the discussion has brought some good ideas to the table, so when I make an actual build guide and plan I'll put all of the best possibilities there. In testing it functions decently well too, with only a couple of them at a time. With the juggernaut node I actually do have faith in the build. You are right in that all the chances to have things happen hinders the build. But I'm decently confident that the fact that 1 end charge = max endurance charges (7) will compensate for the stacking chance mechanics that I'm using.

I too am a bit sceptic, but the skeleton spawning coupled with staff crit endurance charges seems good enough until you can farm currency for voll's devotion.

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permut wrote:

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ShadowStyle wrote:

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fanimala wrote:

%Chance to hit + % Chance to crit on hit + % Chance to cast on critical + Chance to gain max power charges

_____________

= not enough consistent dmg

- you lose 1 socket for even less dmg


I dont know if its worth going for juggernaut for this "gain max charges" thing without volls atm

Yeah that has been my concern from the start. All of the discussion has brought some good ideas to the table, so when I make an actual build guide and plan I'll put all of the best possibilities there. In testing it functions decently well too, with only a couple of them at a time. With the juggernaut node I actually do have faith in the build. You are right in that all the chances to have things happen hinders the build. But I'm decently confident that the fact that 1 end charge = max endurance charges (7) will compensate for the stacking chance mechanics that I'm using.

I too am a bit sceptic, but the skeleton spawning coupled with staff crit endurance charges seems good enough until you can farm currency for voll's devotion.

I tried several of the suggestions on a standard character, and I was getting endurance charges consistently enough. When you add in going to max charges I think it will do well enough. If worst comes to worst, with the new challenge for 1200 volls kills, I'll just do the challenge and hope to get enough cards for the set LOL

with volls you can go romiras.

otherwise you have to generate power charges (not a big Problem compared to endurance charges but still)


with romiras you want to go resolute technique.
-> Mjölner


Or go volls protector but you will not have enough defenses: you lose chest piece and shield, you will need massive crit investment with marauder start, your dmg will be low even with discharge compared to what you have to spend

you want some second layer defense or good life pool 8k to survive hits. you go cyclone: mana issues -> you go blood magic -> no auras (except aura ring)

2 handed = low block (no block without staff)



I think marauder CoC Discharge for Max Charges is very expensive or fatal
Other Classes are much better because they provide better dmg/ pathing/ survivability (trickster)

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fanimala wrote:

with volls you can go romiras.

otherwise you have to generate power charges (not a big Problem compared to endurance charges but still)


with romiras you want to go resolute technique.
-> Mjölner


Or go volls protector but you will not have enough defenses: you lose chest piece and shield, you will need massive crit investment with marauder start, your dmg will be low even with discharge compared to what you have to spend

you want some second layer defense or good life pool 8k to survive hits. you go cyclone: mana issues -> you go blood magic -> no auras (except aura ring)

2 handed = low block (no block without staff)



I think marauder CoC Discharge for Max Charges is very expensive or fatal
Other Classes are much better because they provide better dmg/ pathing/ survivability (trickster)

You forget about Kingsguard 100 HP gain x Endurance charges. We have faith in this:)

If there's mana issues when you can't use warlord's mark blasphemy combo you can also get blood magic on your weapon when going with staff.

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lapilesos wrote:

You forget about Kingsguard 100 HP gain x Endurance charges. We have faith in this:)

and how do you want to regenerate endurance charges without volls amulet and romiras?

the staff coc skele combo might be insufficient to generate charges and +X gain on discharge is good when you can proc it often enough :/

imo kingsguard is not worth the slot without massive procs and endurance charges.

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fanimala wrote:

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lapilesos wrote:

You forget about Kingsguard 100 HP gain x Endurance charges. We have faith in this:)

and how do you want to regenerate endurance charges without volls amulet and romiras?

the staff coc skele combo might be insufficient to generate charges and +X gain on discharge is good when you can proc it often enough :/

imo kingsguard is not worth the slot without massive procs and endurance charges.

Generation of Endurance charges is a problem that is discussed in topic. Voll's devotion is not discussed here - since it's not build "enabling" but rather build "disabling" item.

Please read topic starter - this should be budget build.

For Voll's there atleast 3 other topics on first marauder page. :)

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lapilesos wrote:

Generation of Endurance charges is a problem that is discussed in topic. Voll's devotion is not discussed here - since it's not build "enabling" but rather build "disabling" item.

Please read topic starter - this should be budget build.

For Voll's there atleast 3 other topics on first marauder page. :)

Budget means playable. This build will have problems in t10-11 maps without nice gear (then not being budget anymore). T10-11 is normal endgame.

I did not say volls is a must. I say this build wont survive tomorrow with CoC Staff and Marauder. When you remove the staff and replace it with a dagger/ 1 handed it will be a lot better. then why marauder? just because juggernaut gains max end charges (this is the only thing it gives)?

Marauder hasnt the best coc starts: far away from crit nodes. you could argue about crit staves and templar area but you will lose your shield with defenses, spell dmg, life and block. you will have to travel to witch/ shadow start to utilize coc. in this case trickster shadow is superior because crit, ele dmg, accuracy and Evasion/ energy shield (2nd protection layer), auras bc free cyclone with massive attackspeed.


Juggernaut doesnt seem to fit in the coc role while being BUDGET.

Volls Devotions is build enabling for this gain max endurance charges thing but it wont be budget anymore (but budget juggernaut coc version might be impossible anyway)


atm I havent got a good idea how to make a viable build out of this with only a small amount of currency because I think the focus on gaining endurance charges for this juggernaut thing is wrong - it eats up too many points and item slots and specific requirements.

With Voll's devotion this build will sit at 9 endurance charges and permanent IC all day long.
Then just CI and facetank Über. Literally.

There are no doubts at all. :)

Therefore we are trying to step away from this and design build that can run without Voll's.

This is why juggernaut, staff, bad start for crit build an so on.

Cheers :)