[2.3] TheoryCrafting Staff juggernaut CoC discharge
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Planned build guide is here!
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1667212 please leave questions and comments on the build guide thread! I finally was able to play enough to get my character up to low maps and start using the build. The gear I have will be posted in the buildguide thread! All right, so for a long time I've wanted to make a CoC Discharge build using staves but there was never any good way to do it. Now with the new feature on the "Unrelenting" node for juggernaut, I think that it could finally work. For all the thinking and information I did, open this spoiler. If you want the bare minimum details, read the TLDR. -I did some testing in standard, info is down the page -ProjectPT was doing build reviews, and reviewed somebody elses tree that was this same build idea (go figure, I thought I was being unique with this :( -Scold's was suggested as a way to get charges. Very good option if you can get your hands on one.
Spoiler
Info about my initial theory and idea
So for those of you who don't know, the Unrelenting node is going to get a new effect in 2.3 (Unless it gets changed, because it very well could). It now gives max endurance charges whenever you gain an endurance charge. I'm sure many people thought of CoC discharge just like I did. The difference is I wanted to focus on not requiring a Voll's devotion to get consistent endurance charges. Endurance and power charges theorycrafting The way I thought I could get endurance charges pretty much revolves around the staff node "Smashing Strikes" which grants a 10% chance to gain an endurance charge on melee critical strike with a staff. 10% isn't a high chance, which could be an issue for the build. Also, power charges are very strong for shocking, so tried thinking of how to keep them incorporated into the discharge setup. We could either use Voll's chest like classic CoC dischargers, or use Kingsguard and use a powercharge on crit gem in the setup. I'm not sure which option would be best, so that will have to be tested when 2.3 comes out. Weapon Ideas and issues Now the next issue is a weapon, because also in 2.3 the amount of hybrid spellcaster/melee modded weapons will be even lower than it already would be for staves. Most people probably vendor that kind of item. The classic answer is to use a vagan staff, but those might not be common for people to buy from vagan anyway. Juggernaut does have the nice ascendancy node to give 1000 accuracy and 10% attack speed, so that could substitute a vagan staff if you can't get a good one. Final thought about staves. A staff can roll +2 to elemental gems so having a well rolled staff with that mod and discharge socketed in the staff could prove to be very powerful as well. TLDR for anyone who doesn't want to read all of that thinking I had to do -New juggernaut node makes for lots of endurance charges -Didn't want to build around Voll's devotion amulet -Instead use the staff node for endurance charge on melee crit with a staff -CoC viable staves are probably rare -Could use vagan staff or well rolled CoC staff and the +1000 Accuracy ascendancy node. Planned links for the build Updated after testing Kingsguard and Vaal Pact (The version I'm going with now) Discharge - CoC - Cyclone - Ice nova(for Elemental equilibrium - increased crit chance - something --Faster attacks is an option if you need more cyclone procs (Thanks Rulky for the suggestion) Blasphemy - Warlords mark - (Maybe Also Assassins mark if we get dual curse somehow) Vengeance - CoC - Blade vortex - PCoC Finally the Passive trees The tree was made in the offline skill tree that was updated for 2.3, so I don't know if that's an issue for viewing purposes. 104 pts - ProjectPT reviewed tree version - Vaal pact and EE https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAEBAMbYWGN9c_ONwAE9_K0J9IMGxozPXaT2SN3VXz8UIH_j7w4x-1BH5FFnm64-xq7E9jwtr6dyqYNfg8wczqyq9zK3PitQWfPqGJJ9QYf-Cg3Nnz4aOO1E-Ot2rNwj-ejyRdi9_lQt0pBVvJq77fPdz36Yb4LHOuE1kicvQXKRzmhl5c8o-qZX_o-18jrYyWeYrU3jbqrsOErIgpuFez8nmjtmVCpNn999W0fi73w8BaxHIuLAZlFMpDkEs63xykqiABhdX7DwH5u1wzqExSo4JIsPqxa_JpVh4lVLjDaJ03BS -Somebody else had the same idea and had their tree reviewed. This is what came out of it. Update: Standard league tests and findings
Spoiler
I decided to test out the endurance charge generation of the staff nodes to see how reliable it would be. I grabbed a random staff from my stash that had 9.38 crit and 1.15 aps. I used the volls version of the tree because the character I used wasn't too high level. Something I realised is using Kingsguard will be even more brutal for socket coloring than a volls because it's higher level. In my testing I only used a volls and a 5 link I had laying around because I wanted to test the charge generation. So anyway, here's what I figured out.
-endurance charge generation was a bit unreliable -using volls chest wasn't too bad, but I'd rather find another option. -5 link with increased crit and PCoC was decent, increased crit might be a needed link for endurance charge generation -crit chance for cyclone with increased crit was about 75% without power charges -the volls style skill tree I have might be the best option even without volls -more focus will need to be on getting cyclone crit chance as high as possible for endurance charge generation. Closing notes This is the first time I've really tried to come up with my own unique build idea in my years of playing so I really hope it ends up working. (I started back in the anarchy league) This build probably may or may not end up being as strong or stronger than a classic trickster CoC discharge build. I'm guessing that GGG will end up nerfing this new mechanic somehow and making all of this theorycrafting a waste, but here's to hoping! If they made it a chance to go to max charges, rather than guaranteed, then the build might still work if the chance is high enough. Any thoughts, criticisms, or suggestions are much appreciated. Last edited by ShadowStyle on Jun 9, 2016, 11:38:26 AM Last bumped on Jun 9, 2016, 9:04:15 AM
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Hi, nice writeup :)
Throw in bloodrage - (kingsguard version) - to round things up. Maybe Warlord's Mark for generation too? May be you will consider Daresso's Defiance for generating of charges too? And using "worm potion" for some mobs if there are no trash enemies? Still intresting to see lvling version of it. Last edited by lapilesos on May 26, 2016, 9:12:12 AM
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very interested in the development of this build!
IGN: MsPoopyButthole
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" I tried out blood rage while I was testing weapon stuff and it seemed like a decent little boost. The attack speed was helpful and the frenzy charges were OK. I might need a little bit more life regeneration so it doesn't degen me, or maybe the blood dance boots would work too. As for daresso's, I don't have one to test but I'm not to sure it would help more than it would hurt. My worry is when is spinning into a pack and not getting a process before getting hit and losing my charges. If that happened then I would be stuck spinning without any charges to discharge. Maybe if I used a PCoC and blade vortex with daresso's it would work, but I think Kingsguard would be more helpful overall for survivability. The worm potion sounds like a good idea, I'll probably use one when 2.3 comes out. If GGG doesn't change the mechanics of the new berserker acesndency before 2.3, I'll probably try to make an actual build guide and put a leveling tree in it. Thanks for the suggestions and feedback :) it got my brain turning some more and mayba I'll think of some more ideas for the build. |
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" Thank you! I'm super excited for prophecy and testing out this build. As long as the juggernaut mechanic doesn't get nerfed it should be decent at the very least! If i make an actual build guide I'll post the link in this page so people can see it! |
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Endurance Charge on Melee Stun seems much more reliable than 10% on crit. Just my 2 cents. Regardless you need to get the charges through the melee part of the attack unlike Voll builds that can get reliable charge generation from discharge itself, which would be a lot tougher as discharge kills everything.
Last edited by konakonakona on May 27, 2016, 1:42:03 AM
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"With the new Ascendancy changes to 2.3, Juggernaut has received a sizeable improvement to its utility. Unflinching: 20% chance to gain and Endurance Charge when you are Hit Unrelenting: If you would gain Endurance Charges, you instead gain up to your maximum Endurance Charges. With these to it's possible you will gain maximum Endurance Charges from a Hit. |
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" In answer to konakonakona, I don't think I would be stunning much if at all with my cyclone. I don't think crits get guaranteed stuns, which would be the only way my melee attacks would stun at all since they won't be doing much damage. I think that if I use leap slam for my movement skill, I could link that with stun and endurance charge on melee stun and possibly get a stun occasionally. Sort of in response to XerxezBreak, the chance to gain an endurance charge when I'm hit is going to be nice. Although I never wanted to rely on it, it definitely will help when I go into a pack and most likely get hit. I plan to have warlords mark on blasphemy, so that helps to fix the problem of discharge killing things and not giving charges back. Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, you're probably right in that I might need more ways of getting charges than just my melee crits. |
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Better idea to generate charges :
Unflinching: 20% chance to gain and Endurance Charge when you are Hit + Scold + Cyclone | |
" This is an option that I considered, but I have no idea how I would get a Scold's Bridle in prophecy rofl. Currently I don't have time to no-life the game anymore, which is why I didn't want to rely on getting a Voll's devotion. If I can get a Scold's by chance, then that would be amazing. But I don't want to plan around that when I may never farm up the currency for one due to lack of available time. Scold's would be a perfect fit for this build and would eliminate many many problems, and I'm sure that many of the richer players doing a similar build to this one will use it. Great suggestion, hopefully anybody who tries this build can get their hands on one. |
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