The Endgame Labyrinth

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Cambob wrote:

People threatening to leave PoE because ONE stat on gear is hard to get. Bye.
People threatening to leave PoE because their build can't faceroll lab. Bye.
People threatening to leave PoE because they're not being pampered. Bye.
People threatening to leave PoE because they can't buy purple monkey. Bye.
People threatening to leave PoE because 'other game' looks better. Bye.

None of you [Removed by Support] are actually held hostage in Wraeclast. Hop on the next outrage train and poison some other gaming experience. Don't worry; Piety will still kick your ass when you come crawling back.

When all these people threatening leave, have fun playing the game alone until they run out of cash and pull the plug. Bye

I like the Lab actually. Makes the game more divers instead of walk and slash through act 1 to 4. My heart beats like 300 bpm every time I need to do Malachai and the Labyrinth on hardcore. Love the thrill! Awesome if a game can do that.

Although it must not be too much. Completing it once per legue sounds good, think thats the only thing the Lab needed imo.

People who are saying the Lab is boring, don't play hardcore probebly ^^.

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Cambob wrote:

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stuf wrote:

Why are my ascendancy points gated behind the lab?

The labs would be nice optional content why are they forced on everyone?

Ascendancy IS the lab.
Ascendancy IS optional.

It's like saying "Why do I have to kill Piety to get 2 passive points. Just give them to me when I create a new character. All this pointing and clicking is too hard."

How is it optional? Please enlighten me so I can tear up that argument. Do not say " You can skip it" lmao well your are right but here's the thing.. how many people will pass up the chance to improve their character? GGG used a nice psychological trick there. Many gaming companies have done the same thing and Guess what??? Most failed and others had to change how they " Gated" things that are suppose to be optional which turns out not to be so optional.

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GodKas wrote:

Is Endgame Lab available in permanent league as well after 2.3 release?

23 pages later...

...I believe this is a change with Ascendancy; so, yes, It will be available after the temporary challenge league is over. At least that is what I believe. Someone can correct me. Cheers!

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BestRain wrote:

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Cambob wrote:

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stuf wrote:

Why are my ascendancy points gated behind the lab?

The labs would be nice optional content why are they forced on everyone?

Ascendancy IS the lab.
Ascendancy IS optional.

It's like saying "Why do I have to kill Piety to get 2 passive points. Just give them to me when I create a new character. All this pointing and clicking is too hard."

How is it optional? Please enlighten me so I can tear up that argument. Do not say " You can skip it" lmao well your are right but here's the thing.. how many people will pass up the chance to improve their character? GGG used a nice psychological trick there. Many gaming companies have done the same thing and Guess what??? Most failed and others had to change how they " Gated" things that are suppose to be optional which turns out not to be so optional.

PoE came out in 2013. Thousands and thousands of players have completed every possible aspect of the game with every new buff and nerf.
Ascendancy came out in March 2016 and you can still complete every aspect of the game, including the lab without Ascendancy points.
You just can't faceroll it with some uber cookie builds. Aww.
It actually takes time, thought, struggle, skill, pain, suffering... Aww.
The reward is what you lust for, but you're not willing to suffer the cost. Aww.
Aww..ptional.

Having more fun every league ! Keep the good work.

As a HC player I don't think I would farm the end game lab but others will.

Just as I don't farm Atziri but others do.

I'm glad they will both exist because I will be able to sell my end game lab ''fragments'' as well as my Atziri fragments.

If end game Lab ends up looking way too much difficult for my character to achieve, I will consider paying for help getting those 2 extra points and that's a WIN WIN situation.

Pro players get rewarded even more for doing hard content and players like me get ascendancy points without killing Uber Izaro.

Just wanted to add some positive feedback because I'm afraid too much complaints might turn awesome Path of Exile into Diablo 3.

One exemple of complaint that ruined diablo 3:

I don't find my loot everything comes from the auction house.

Auction house removed and account bound stuff.

I hope Poe keeps its roots over time.

I have to agree, what's the point of playing a game with the OPTION to improve your character if the game is too easy? Yes lab is optional, yes its required to improve your character further, but tell me something would you REALLY enjoy the game if you get everything without working for it? Imagine the game this way: You get lvl 100 character with all the gear / points as soon as you make it. Does that game seem fun to you?

GGG you're making the game more awesome with each expansion, and I look forward to any / every new content. The only problem I have with this game is that most of the uniques are either weak / vendored, or insane. A balance between the two would be great. I can appreciate all the work you're putting into. So rock on :)

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Cambob wrote:

PoE came out in 2013. Thousands and thousands of players have completed every possible aspect of the game with every new buff and nerf.
Ascendancy came out in March 2016 and you can still complete every aspect of the game, including the lab without Ascendancy points.
You just can't faceroll it with some uber cookie builds. Aww.
It actually takes time, thought, struggle, skill, pain, suffering... Aww.
The reward is what you lust for, but you're not willing to suffer the cost. Aww.
Aww..ptional.

I find it hard to take any of your opinions seriously. What you are talking about is not what the makers of path of exile intend for their game, they have literally said as much. Your weird masochistic fetishes have nothing to do with this game. More importantly it does not take anything other than time to do lab in any of its iterations. Its not hard, its unforgiving and wastes time not because the people playing lack the skill to do it or the gear but because a split second lapse in judgement or a lag spike renders a lot of their time useless. It also punishes a lot of play styles which is never a good design decision regardless of whatever throwaway cookie cutter comment you decide to use.

Its all a matter of time spent to reward acquired, if its near equal then the activity is designed properly, but if the time needed is infinitely more than the reward acquired its designed inhumanely. The only real reason for such design is to act as content padding, a gross practice that people are expressing their distaste for in this thread. There are suggestions being presented that don't take away anything from the unforgiving nature of the Lab, they simply prevent GGG from using it as a content crutch, which they are not particularly fond of.

I for one take all the nerfs and buffs in stride as they are put into the game and this is the first issue that I am being concerned about to voice my opinion and truly oppose. I do so because it sets a bad precedent for future content in its design, the mechanics are bad, the gating is bad, the risk/reward ratio is bad. However, if those issues are fixed I feel the Lab is great addition to the game, it just needs to be an enjoyable feature and not a means to punish the dedicated fan base that keeps the lights on at GGG.

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Coffee219 wrote:

Chris Wilson said on State of Exile that those that do not like the lab are a minority, but that simply is not true. There are a few straw polls that can prove that.

GGGs metrics are more proof than straw polls, come on now.

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Coffee219 wrote:

So here are my reasons for hating the lab:

1) I play softcore, I do not play hardcore, and therefore if the worst happens and I happen to die in the labyrinth why should I have to restart? It would be better if there were checkpoints, say, before each Izaro fight.

Something I can get behind, yet not enough to condemn the entire concept of labs IMO.

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Coffee219 wrote:

2) This is an ARPG. It's about killing endless hoards of monsters and collecting loot. It is not about Pitfall mechanics, puzzles, and slow-paced dodging of traps.

Who says? The definition of ARPG is vague at best. It describes the combat, that's for sure, but there are many different things that can be includes in the overall experience. The best definition I can find mentions "few or no puzzles" (or anything not combat related), so it's not strictly prohibited.

I don't think "this is an ARPG" is good enough reason to not include new, different things. "I don't enjoy these things" is fine, that's an opinion. I happen to welcome different types of gameplay since the current clear speed meta can get a tedious itself.

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Coffee219 wrote:

3) Dead ends. Enough said.

OK, I'm with you, but again that's not an inherent problem to the concept of labs.

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Coffee219 wrote:

4) Map mods when there are events are included in the lab. The lab itself is challenging enough. There is no need for there to be Beyond mobs and boss guardians to make it more difficult.

I guess just another opinion piece and not a reason of why labs is something that should be removed or limited. I think fighting mobs with traps around is more fun.

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Coffee219 wrote:

5) There are not always forgotten reliquaries for the more difficult Izaro battles (Elementals and Idols specifically).

Sure, again, not an issue with the concept of labs in general. The fight most likely isn't actually tuned around having these. If you're not strong enough for the hardest Izaro, I would recommend doing what anyone does for other fights, you get help, get stronger, and avoid him until then.

I mean, isn't THAT an ARPG staple as well? Increasing difficulties that you're not always prepared for and may have to go back and farm until you are?

Even though I don't agree with this, it wouldn't be hard to "fix".

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Coffee219 wrote:

6) Enchants. Either make it so you have, say, three options to choose from or just remove them altogether because most of us do not want to have to grind labs just to get the right enchant.

I think the huge amount of RNG is the only thing I wouldn't mind being tweaked a bit. It's not mandatory in any way so not too much tweaking. Something like what you said is perfect.

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XSoulkeeper wrote:

I have to agree, what's the point of playing a game with the OPTION to improve your character if the game is too easy? Yes lab is optional, yes its required to improve your character further, but tell me something would you REALLY enjoy the game if you get everything without working for it? Imagine the game this way: You get lvl 100 character with all the gear / points as soon as you make it. Does that game seem fun to you?

You should get a job with the balance team, you seem to like extremes.