Im not understanding current talk of coc/chaos nerfs...

People like everything in nature want to use the easiest way possible in order to save as much energy they can. Thats why most popular builds in games are also most OP ones.
So there is simple way to keep the game more balanced, nerf everything that is in top 3 popularity every week/month till you get close to equal dispersion in usefulness of certain skills and items.

CoC is broken mostly because spells have high base damage without need of investment in it. Where attacks need to have good weapon since by themself they offer only multiplier not a damage. If GGG would add also multiplier of weapon damage to spells (magic attack like most games do) CoC would never be OP since for example quill rain build would do 10 damage per spell.
CoC nerfs , LUL .
R.I.P 4.B.
"
Colonelnut wrote:
First off, yes there are some very powerful builds out there, I do realize that.

CoC? Why are people complaining about wanting this nerfed? It takes a lot of investment (time/currency in most cases) to actually have a CoC worth 2 shits that can function on the offence and defence side of things. STOP complaining, especially these people who have NEVER played this type of build! How can you sit here and say it needs to be nerfed when you've never even played nor spent the time to make one. Anyways I really think you would have to completely remove the skill to nerf it. You cant nerf the internal time and it has been nerfed a few times already. Leave it alone.

Chaos meta... There are plenty of other builds that are very strong and also remember there are also only a handful of builds who can actually do uber. I think its great now that there actually more then 5 (estimating) builds that can do most of the endgame stuff. I really think the only reason half the shit gets nerfed is become people complain way too much about shit they have no clue about. Is it jealousy? Haters? I don't know but I am getting tired of Constant nerfs to things that really are just strong, but not overpowering.

So how about this GGG... Why cant you guys buff monsters? More HP or more attack/speed. Something other then the same old shit of nerfing everything the players enjoy... and that is finding and crafting the most elite builds with a lot of time and thought invested. Please people, stop complaining over shit you don't know about and definitely do not complain if you are jealous or whatever you may be going through... or just don't say anything at all and I would imagine some things would stay the same and the player base would be ALOT happier/

Now I get it, don't get me wrong, changes are great and they need to be done. I get that and I totally agree with it. But sometimes it seems everything fun gets fucked and thrown out the window. Its sad and disheartening.

Thanks for the reading my frustrations!


The main problem with Chaos is double-dipping with poison. Nerfs dont affect it, so chaos will remain imbalanced (either OP or junk).
Main problem with CoC is its combination with Discharge and items, that provide charges. Discharge becames too powerful when you you instantly gain full charges and discharge them 10+ times per second without manacost involved. Put something like 0.5-1 seconds CD on discharge, and it will be fine nerf. Discharge damage can be buffed somewhat, to leave it useful for self-cast builds.

"
herflik wrote:
People like everything in nature want to use the easiest way possible in order to save as much energy they can. Thats why most popular builds in games are also most OP ones.
So there is simple way to keep the game more balanced, nerf everything that is in top 3 popularity every week/month till you get close to equal dispersion in usefulness of certain skills and items.

CoC is broken mostly because spells have high base damage without need of investment in it. Where attacks need to have good weapon since by themself they offer only multiplier not a damage. If GGG would add also multiplier of weapon damage to spells (magic attack like most games do) CoC would never be OP since for example quill rain build would do 10 damage per spell.

Just "nerfing" wont make any good for game.
Developers should learn, WHY those OP builds are actually OP, and nerf them so imbalanced numbers or mechanics will be fixed. Otherwise, can easily turn OP builds into trash ones (i mean, COMPLETE trash).
Just look how GGG nerfed Consuming Dark. Conversion reduced from 75% to 50%. But it changed nothing. Now, GGG plans to nerf it furthermore, to 30% conversion.
While the true root of the problem is chaos double-dip damage+poison mechanics, which was added, but all chaos benefits (reflect immune, low res, ES penetration) remained as well.
Chaos is still "THE BEST" damage type in the game. GGG just tries artificially reduce chaos damage, instead of bringing it in line with other damage types.
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Last edited by MortalKombat3 on May 23, 2016, 4:55:14 PM
Sorry OP, but im not understanding what you are telling, title misleadings me.
IGN: PojzonAbyss
[3.2] Immortal Indigon Poet's Pen Hirophant - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2129766
[3.1] Yamata No Orochi - Oni-Goroshi Jugg http://poeurl.com/bHB9
[2.4] The True Queen Of The Forest - Poison LA/BR Pathfinder http://poeurl.com/M6u [Retired]
I'd still like someone to enlighten me as to how lacerate is going to make groundslam better. As per: sidtherat
"
Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:
MFW people trashing Trypanon but forgetting you can get 240% crit multi from Marylenes Fallacy, AKA you can get more crit multiplier by a significant amount than any other COC build.



OH yeah that ammy.. yeah it was a no brainer to run that in the setup and again.. The build was garbage. Dont take my word for it.. Try it yourself.

All the crit multi in the world means less than nothing if you dont have the accu, spell crit, and APS to make it work out in the end. Although it did indeed help with the lacking spell damage it wasn't near enough to make up for everything else needed to make a decent COC build.

Trypannon is a nice beginner introduction into playing COC on a very simplified build and can be built very easily but in comparison to good COC builds its NEVER gonna be anything close. I even went as far as making it on a Duelist which is by far one of the best ways to bypass the terrible APS on the weapon just like with Marohi but the results was just beyond subpar in comparison to even the most mediocre and cheapest COC builds.

Not to mention that crit multi wont result into anything if you cant scale Spell Crit which since we dont get it on the weapon and cant run a shield means ALL our spell crit comes from the tree meaning even more tree investment into the spec to even make it work let alone be able to put into defenses which the build will also inherently lack as a result of the above.. No Shield..

But you have already made it pretty clear that not only have you not tried any of this for yourself to know what im saying that you also REFUSE to try it for yourself and judge everything on theory alone and thus base everything you have to say about COC on what you THINK and what you see others doing but nothing on what you actually have experienced for yourself.

Why dont you actually try making a few of these builds you hate on so much you might actually find they are alot more balanced than you think just because of the investment alone. Let alone actually having to play the build correctly. And your rebuttal to anything someone like me with exp in these things is i only defend it because i love it.. no i defend it against people who dont even know how it works.. ive already made clear the biggest issue with COC and has persisted since it first nerf.. and Thats the EXTREME amount of APS builds are capable of. And this isnt just a problem related to COC but to ALL builds attack based in the game.. When i can basically make ANY attack build in the game get Attack Speed scaled to the point that i can BREAK the animation with APS scaling theres a clear problem. And that problem is going to carry over to ANYTHING that is effected by Attack Speed which in COCs case APS is one of the 3 keys to making COC even work.. APS, Crit, and Accu.. And if even one of these is broken then ofcourse its going to break COC as a result.

Its also one of the biggest contributing factors to the Ranged/Melee disparity yet melee at the same time relys on this to even stay any little bit competitive. So APS needs to be adjusted as a result but NOT just on the tree and NOT just on ALL bases of weapons but on certain bases. For example since there is going to be daggers rolling for more Caster mods now those daggers need to have ALOT less inherent APS on them. This will not only help balance COC but also cut out of the Caster+WBs problem we have. Since Almost all APS nodes on the tree are tied to Cast Speed as well. This also tones down on how bows would be so much more OP over Melee since getting these kinds of APS on a Bow is just frankly stupid. Thus why base APS on Bows needs adjustments as well. Certain wands also need adjustment or at the very least high Crit Wands needs Less APS base. ect
There is a fine line between Consideration and Hesitation.
The former is Wisdom, the latter is Fear.
Last edited by Demonoz on May 23, 2016, 5:50:15 PM
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Demonoz wrote:
[...] COCs case APS is one of the 3 keys to making COC even work.. APS, Crit, and Accu.. And if even one of these is broken then ofcourse its going to break COC as a result.


You forget the fact that the cooldown time of CoC triggers is another key - the most important one. Even if there is high APS/Accu/Crit this wouldnt break CoC if there was a higher cooldown time on the triggered skills.
Last edited by zzang on May 23, 2016, 5:57:50 PM
"
zzang wrote:
"
Demonoz wrote:
[...] COCs case APS is one of the 3 keys to making COC even work.. APS, Crit, and Accu.. And if even one of these is broken then ofcourse its going to break COC as a result.


You forget the fact that the cooldown time of CoC triggers is another key - the most important one. Even if there is high APS/Accu/Crit this wouldnt break CoC if there was a higher cooldown time on the triggered skills.


Thats the thing there wouldn't even need to be a an internal Cooldown on COC if it wasn't for the extreme amount of APS a build can achieve. Right now with the ICD COC has you basically depending on the proc skill your running just go for the APS to cap out the 20 proc per second and thats it anymore APS will simply be a waste because you can not proc any more than that. If APS was toned down across the board there wouldnt even need to be an ICD because APS would just determine the Procs but you couldn't even reach 20 procs per second in the first place to even need the ICD. Thats my point im trying to make.

Adjusting or making the ICD higher will only result in needed less APS to hit the cap resulting in people running less APS to achieve the cap and putting that saved APS into other things like Spell Damage and Spell Crit which in the end we will still have the APS problem and COC will still be able to be scaled to a crazy amount. Tone down on APS across the board and you have the choice to either scale APS for more procs, Scale Spell for possibly less but stronger procs or whatever. But it would give more choice than just adding to the ICD which would only result in builds capping out the ICD with even less investment. Basically ALL COC builds would have a threshold to cap procs and scale whatever from there. Which isnt going to really change much of anything. And you are still left with APS having its effects on all other non COC builds as well.
There is a fine line between Consideration and Hesitation.
The former is Wisdom, the latter is Fear.
Last edited by Demonoz on May 23, 2016, 6:28:03 PM
CoC is being used to achieve permanent (or near permanent) invulnerability. That's game breaking. There is no point in making harder content when the players are invulnerable. What's so hard to understand there? Even the creator of the most popular CoC build called for it to be nerfed.
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A kid with a magnifying glass. . . looming down on the anthill. Eventually one is going to get you.
Last edited by Maceless on May 24, 2016, 1:05:15 AM

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