Please Allow full game unlock after beating Normal Difficulty OR Remove Normal Difficulty

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TriniGamer wrote:
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mark1030 wrote:

You've said it several times now: "end game? which is where the actual game starts? ". Says who? You? Where did GGG ever advertise that the game actually starts at endgame? I've only seen instant gratification players say that. I've leveled up probably over 50 characters into merciless by now. Never am I bored with leveling up. It's one of the funnest parts of the game. You can actually see your character get stromger with each level. What's so great about this endgame you want to get to? You've got good gear and most of your passives so all that's left is boring grinding. Killing the same shit over and over and over. How is that more fun than doing the same quests 3 times and killing the same monsters over and over to progress through the game?


Yeah you play 50 characters and you enjoy all the trash gear you get, I am quite happy for you. Maybe you should pick up a game like super mario instead, it would be right there up your alley.

As for everyother SANE person who follows a build a REAL BUILD they play for end game gear and end game content.


The people who currently play (and can actually get to end game) probably play for both reasons. There is the gratification of leveling a character and making it your own, whether you follow somebody's build or your own. Gearing it and leveling is the process they take part in and enjoy. Afterwards, end game is the reward for both reaching that point and essentially reaching a secondary point where gearing and optimization become the focus and reward.

There are those who currently get frustrated when they reach maps and make new characters over and over, there are those who are too impatient and give up and leave the game. And there are those who are the majority most likely that enjoy the entire process. Repeating quests, or having 10 acts won't change anything. Those that enjoy the grind and the endgame grind will stick around, others won't in all likelihood. GGG is aiming to make the game they want to make, that doesn't mean they have to reach AAA status and be accessible to everyone. The game just needs to be accessible to their vision.
"It's all clearer now
And I hear her now
And I'm nearer to
The Salvation Code"
Last edited by PleiadesBlackstar on May 9, 2016, 4:37:17 PM
If you're going to call me dishonest, you better have some evidence. Name one thing I was dishonest about.

If you think you're going to get the gg gear from endgame drops, you obviously have never played endgame before. Maybe try getting there before you tell us what's there.

Edit: P.S. You still haven't told me what movie sequels you've watched based on reasons other than the original. Your WoW argument is all in your head and has no basis in reality.
Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com
Last edited by mark1030 on May 9, 2016, 4:43:44 PM
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TriniGamer wrote:
My issue here is the dishonest people, playing through all the quests gets BORING after a while. When all you want is to reach end game merciless and start grinding for gear and builds.

I'm sick of this mindless grinding, it's so boring. I just want this particular section of grinding to be over so I can get on to the next section of mindless grinding. I *know* that section will be fun. Mmmm, slightly different grinding.

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TriniGamer wrote:
As for everyother SANE person who follows a build a REAL BUILD they play for end game gear and end game content.


Sane people play games for fun. Surely you can understand that some people don't find making a worse version of somebody else's character very interesting.
Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756
Honestly, with all the twink gears and various systems to help added along the years, going from lvl 1 to maps is now what ? 6 hrs ? Is it really a problem ? I could see the point when levelling was hard and you had to grind zones ect, but right now you just equip a tabula, 1 or 2 twink items and you crush the levelling.
leveling before maps is trash.
leveling before maps is about as boring as the game can get.
if i knew one or two years ago that ascendancy classes would be a thing, i'd ran one of all classes while i still found leveling new characters bearable.
thankfully guildie boosted me from a1c till a4m.

that being said...

poe is all about rerolling and building new characters.

letting players skip acts/difficulties would not make much sense.

and not all players share my opinion about leveling.

some find the acts more interesting than, "endgame", whatever you consider that to be.



it is unfortunate that one of my loved builds landed in a mandatory ascendancy class,

on a character that i have not levelled a single time to maps.

otherwise i would not be running a new character again.
[s]only mindless sheep think labyrinth is OK to have in PoE.[/s]
okay nevermind labyrinth, fix dx9 blackscreen instead...
So as a top end player myself i hate to be the one to break this to you OP but playing through the game while this can get old after you've done it many MANY times like i have at the same time its important to understand that this is a necessary evil one must do to progress your build.

Now of course Cruel will be took out id say with the arrival of Act 5 but until then its the way the game is setup for progression so get used to it. As far as running the game 3 times once you've done it enough its really not that bad and can be done very quickly if you learn how to properly progress your tree and build as you go. One thing to keep in mind when progressing is each difficulty puts a sort of debuff on your resistances which is why you will notice if you are capping coming out of normal difficulty you may find you are no longer capped going into cruel. This is because of how rolls work and how they scale with ilvl and such on gear as you progress. So as you progress just like in any other ARPG you are constantly swapping in new items to keep your stats in check while you progress.

This is a vital part of learning how to make builds come together. Otherwise you would get stuck engaging into content your build isn't ready for. Wasnt it just last week you was complaining how hard the game was and just recently you have finally after 3 years have even figured out how to play good enough to even make to the end of Act 3-4? Now all of a sudden your wanting to skip half the games progression for your character? Thats not gonna make anything better for you nor are you going to learn how to make builds come into their own. If you are still using guides for builds then you still have to go through the process of lvling and getting the build to the point of it functioning.

For example when lvling a typical Righteous Fire build you will always lvl the build as something else running completely different skills as you will once RF is up and running because of how RF functions and that you can not sustain RF untill lvl 65 at minimum because thats what lvl Rise of the Phoenix can be equipped. But at the same time you have to lvl certain gems such as purity of fire and so forth while the build is progressing the content to prepare it to convert over to RF. Skipping difficulties and such isnt going to make this process easier you still have to grind out those 65 lvls somewhere. And dragging out the content across less difficulties with more say exp per kill and more mobs or something to that effect will have detrimental effects on the lvling process as well.

You also have to consider how all the areas are layed out and how exp gains progress across the content across all 3 runs. Right now its pretty solid and once you get used to it normal difficulty is where you progress the most with cruel and then merci basically being where you progress the build into its own over the lvling process.

You finish up normal at around lvl 40-42 ish depending then cruel finishes at around 56-58 depending and then from there you make your way through merci finishing up squaring away those resistances for the last time and beginning to equip the endgame parts of your build and when the final forms of your build begin to take shape. This process is nearly half the game itself. The other half of the game being mapping. Which once you get to that point even that is going to get old after a while because its nothing more than rolling the same maps over and over and over just like the lvling process. So if you dont like lvling through the content 3 times chances are your gonna end up pretty bored of the mapping system fairly quickly as well. But at the end of the day most people who enjoy this sort of thing in ARPGs dont do it for the repetitiveness.. We do ti for the grind.. and ALL of this stuff is a grind. If you dont like to grind them ARPGs as a whole might not be for you period.

then again each and every person including myself all play this grind for different reasons.. Mine being that i enjoy making different builds and testing different things. I dont follow guides nor have i ever.. Have i had builds fail as a result.. Well ofcourse. You cant learn anything if your not willing to make mistakes to learn from. But as ive made more and more builds ive kinda gotten to a point now where i already know whats gonna work and what wont before i even go to create a build. Always keeping past problems that arose in past builds in mind to build around them. Always striving to make a build that does even better than the last. Im not really big into trading to be honest thus why i play in standard mostly where after all the years ive played a accumulated all this stuff i have about anything ill ever need for about any build i can dream up. But thats why i say the lvling process is just as important as the endgame mapping system.. Lvling the build to maps is half the game and where you create the build.. Maps is where you will ultimately test its capabilities.

Others play for the trading and trade alone.. Some do it for the loot hunt.. some do it for the racing.. some do it because they have nothing better to do. Everyone has their reasons for playing. But at the end of the day the game is what it is and its ultimately GGGs experience given to us to explore and have fun with. Take it for what it is and and enjoy it for what it is and what it has to offer. \m/
There is a fine line between Consideration and Hesitation.
The former is Wisdom, the latter is Fear.
Last edited by Demonoz on May 9, 2016, 8:28:40 PM
Full unlock after normal seems a bit too extreme, but I agree there should be some option for experienced players to skip normal and cruel if they would like to. Perhaps after getting a character into merciless you could create a new character with the option of starting at the beginning of merciless. This is very similar to the way you can create a pvp only character as a level 28 rather than having to level it up to 28 manually. This allows players to experiment with more build types more quickly in pvp without having to repeatedly grind the first 28 levels of the game.

Personally, I find it very annoying to play through normal and cruel as I have leveled up tons of characters and have grown quite tired of doing the same thing over and over again. Starting at merciless with 50 points to allocate would be amazing for someone like me who has a lot of build ideas, but does not have the time to repeatedly level characters up to end game.

Lately, I have gotten so bored with the leveling process I limit myself to one character per challenge league. If I get bored with that character while mapping I just ditch the league and wait for the next one. Alternatively, if instead of getting bored, I find some item or come up with an idea for a build I'd like to try, I just go over to standard where I have a pile of characters waiting on full passive respecs and tune the character from that point.

People need to remember that if you play 15+ hours a day, getting to mapping level is a breeze, but if you play two hours a day or less it's going to take a while to get there. Once a player reaches a certain level of skill and understanding in the game, it's no longer a question of will they reach merciless, only how long will it take.

At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is that a change like this would make players that may otherwise get bored and stop playing, keep playing.

Just like with the lab: If you complete it on merciless you get all six ascendancy points regardless of what you didn't complete in normal or cruel. Thank you GGG for not forcing me to complete that hellish maze on all three difficulties!

Also consider that there would be an inherent trade off in the spirit of POE with a change like this. Players that opted to start at merciless would miss out on two play through's worth of currency and item drops. They should also miss out on the norm and cruel bandit choices, and just get the points in their allotment. They would also have to gear from scratch at that point, which they should be able to manage since they would already have one character in merciless to farm with, but repeatedly doing this would become quite costly.




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TriniGamer wrote:
As for everyother SANE person who follows a build a REAL BUILD they play for end game gear and end game content.
I don't believe this is mutually exclusive to playing for early game gear with early gear content (perhaps especially so in HC). I think a truly great "build" has plans for every point in progression, even if those plans involve beginning the game doing one thing and respeccing to another thing later.

What you are really arguing for here is the early game builds are irrelevant. I think that, if they are, it's because the community has decided it to be so, because Path of Exile has failed to deliver on early game builds... not because early game builds are intrinsically uninteresting regardless of game design choices. I feel I'd be lying if I said I didn't notice the huge trend in supporter (and other) uniques to be endgame viable with level 50+ as a requirement to equip. Only a few supporters have been interested enough in early game build options to actually provide one themselves. But some have, and the results haven't been disappointing in my opinion, so it is possible to have enjoyable early game build-crafting.

Earlier in this thread I said the three difficulties are bad because they're repetitious, and I stand by that. But there are ways to relieve the tedium of repetition, and what you're suggesting with waypoints isn't a solution. It's not really a valid suggestion to watch a movie and say "hey, this part of the movie sucks, let's fast forward to the end;" no, if that's the criticism before the movie's public release, it should be fixed by editing the movie, not by reminding viewers where their fast forward buttons are.

I liked your suggestion as a joke. As a serious suggestion, no... just no.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on May 9, 2016, 11:28:31 PM
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AttackDingo wrote:
Full unlock after normal seems a bit too extreme, but I agree there should be some option for experienced players to skip normal and cruel if they would like to. Perhaps after getting a character into merciless you could create a new character with the option of starting at the beginning of merciless. This is very similar to the way you can create a pvp only character as a level 28 rather than having to level it up to 28 manually. This allows players to experiment with more build types more quickly in pvp without having to repeatedly grind the first 28 levels of the game.

Personally, I find it very annoying to play through normal and cruel as I have leveled up tons of characters and have grown quite tired of doing the same thing over and over again. Starting at merciless with 50 points to allocate would be amazing for someone like me who has a lot of build ideas, but does not have the time to repeatedly level characters up to end game.

Lately, I have gotten so bored with the leveling process I limit myself to one character per challenge league. If I get bored with that character while mapping I just ditch the league and wait for the next one. Alternatively, if instead of getting bored, I find some item or come up with an idea for a build I'd like to try, I just go over to standard where I have a pile of characters waiting on full passive respecs and tune the character from that point.

People need to remember that if you play 15+ hours a day, getting to mapping level is a breeze, but if you play two hours a day or less it's going to take a while to get there. Once a player reaches a certain level of skill and understanding in the game, it's no longer a question of will they reach merciless, only how long will it take.

At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is that a change like this would make players that may otherwise get bored and stop playing, keep playing.

Just like with the lab: If you complete it on merciless you get all six ascendancy points regardless of what you didn't complete in normal or cruel. Thank you GGG for not forcing me to complete that hellish maze on all three difficulties!

Also consider that there would be an inherent trade off in the spirit of POE with a change like this. Players that opted to start at merciless would miss out on two play through's worth of currency and item drops. They should also miss out on the norm and cruel bandit choices, and just get the points in their allotment. They would also have to gear from scratch at that point, which they should be able to manage since they would already have one character in merciless to farm with, but repeatedly doing this would become quite costly.






I could see that maybe happening in standard, challenge leagues, not so much. Too many issues with it. But OP of the thread can't even be bothered to play the difficulties through once.
"It's all clearer now
And I hear her now
And I'm nearer to
The Salvation Code"
I changed my mind. I'd be for a mode that lets you skip Normal and Cruel. But only if the price for skipping them would be forfeiture of the bandit rewards for the difficulties skipped. I think that's a fair trade for somebody who thinks the game doesn't start until "endgame".
Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com

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