Labyrinth, movespeed and movement skills

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Big_Ben87 wrote:

Just put packs where traps are lol

I was thinking more of a closed room, but whatever. I guess that is easier to do :P

Not that they'd ever listen to any of us.

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databeaver wrote:

Clearly you haven't been playing video games much. Cheesing likes this happens in every game ever. There are always players who want the rewards for the least possible effort. Online games just expose players to the community more so cheeses gain wider publicity.

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Shajirr wrote:

Isn't the whole point of Labyrinth is somewhat defeated by not placing restrictions on the characters running it?

Currently we have a Labyrinth full of traps that deal damage proportionally to the player's health, so you can't just blast through them by having a really high EHP. That design pit was avoided.

However, allowing the use of movement skills and not capping the movespeed was an enormous mistake. This is where Lab design falls short.

Either a really high movespeed, 300+% or more, and / or movement skills, straight up let you ignore almost all the traps and just mindlessly run through them. Trap timing isn't designed for such shenanigans, and trap placement isn't really designed with movement skills in mind.

Now, if by some chance you still get caught, what do you do?
Pot through it of course! By having 2-3 health potions a player can just ignore pretty much all the trap combinations, potions are enough to refill lost health when you do get caught. Of course, CI build's don't have that luxury, so they still have to watch out, everyone else gets a free pass.
Low life? Not a problem! Remove auras, become hybrid, remove high ES pieces that increase the damage you take, and voila, pot through traps like a real life-based build. Switch back to LL on Izario fights as needed.

So, what should have been a thrilling experience where you had to carefully plan your moves in order to avoid the traps and not die, degraded into a speedcontest with the players ignoring all the traps, as it is the most efficient way of completing the Lab.

If the best way to complete some content is to ignore the largest part of it I think there is a problem. All that time which was spent planning out Lab layouts, trap placement, trap combinations and timings, you can now just ignore it all and happily zerg through the whole thing without giving it a second thought.

Thank you.

it's exactly what i do, with 13% regen i'm not scared of most traps and i just rush in, 4K hp is enough, i pot when needed and i dont even care. Leap slam over shitty layout blindly = win.

The labyrinth has a great design, outside of PoE :P

Ascendancy is good too, outside of the labyrinth.

Personally, i think that it should be a farmable area with monsters 75 and a 78 izaro boss.
We keep traps the same, farmers are happy : farmable area without maps needed with normal drops and xp plus some spices with the traps. The chests become good and usefull if they drop 75+ ilvl items.

Ascendancy 6 points should be doable WITHOUT the kill of izaro, only the enchants shall be available at the end of the labyrinth. Therefore we can move the ascendancy's shrine at the room with the stash just before the izaro's fight.

This solution can be seen as the reward for the completion of the labyrinth and izaro becomes the needed gate for the ppls who want to enchant items.

If izaro is avoidable for the completion of ascendacy we can make him stronger with a level of 78, making the boss challenging for most already geared characters, restraining the enchants with a skill/gear cap.

The whole idea is to not crush the "beginners". If they can do the labyrinth and the two forms of izaro, it doesnt mean that they will kill the third form. If they die, they lose 1 hour for nothing. They have failed the labyrinth before and needed to retry again and again! Finally, they reach the third form izaro and get stomped . It's frustrating and boring. The opposite of FUN.

For this reason, to move the ascendacy shrine at the room just before izaro's fight, with the stash, is the best solution.

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Isn't the whole point of Labyrinth is somewhat defeated by not placing restrictions on the characters running it?

Currently we have a Labyrinth full of traps that deal damage proportionally to the player's health, so you can't just blast through them by having a really high EHP. That design pit was avoided.

However, allowing the use of movement skills and not capping the movespeed was an enormous mistake. This is where Lab design falls short.

Either a really high movespeed, 300+% or more, and / or movement skills, straight up let you ignore almost all the traps and just mindlessly run through them. Trap timing isn't designed for such shenanigans, and trap placement isn't really designed with movement skills in mind.

Now, if by some chance you still get caught, what do you do?
Pot through it of course! By having 2-3 health potions a player can just ignore pretty much all the trap combinations, potions are enough to refill lost health when you do get caught. Of course, CI build's don't have that luxury, so they still have to watch out, everyone else gets a free pass.
Low life? Not a problem! Remove auras, become hybrid, remove high ES pieces that increase the damage you take, and voila, pot through traps like a real life-based build. Switch back to LL on Izario fights as needed.

So, what should have been a thrilling experience where you had to carefully plan your moves in order to avoid the traps and not die, degraded into a speedcontest with the players ignoring all the traps, as it is the most efficient way of completing the Lab.

If the best way to complete some content is to ignore the largest part of it I think there is a problem. All that time which was spent planning out Lab layouts, trap placement, trap combinations and timings, you can now just ignore it all and happily zerg through the whole thing without giving it a second thought.

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Doesn't matter how long trap chains are if you can easily bypass them.
300-400% movespeed and you're golden

Yeah, just get that casual +400% movement speed and it's ezpz
Do you understand the level of dedication to movement speed your build needs to get that level of MS? Have you ever mapped with a character that's even over +100% with all flasks and buffs?

If the Lab is so easy then why are there two players absolutely destroying the Merc. Perandus leaderboards that have been winning for like 3 weeks in a row? How about you go get some free Racing jewels if it's such a snoozefest to get those times.

I have 10 Emperor's Mights from Lab Racing. Building and practicing for Lab runs is the most difficult thing I have ever done in this game by an extremely wide margin, coming from the perspective of a CS:GO/Starcraft/League player. I posted my build on Reddit, and Pajamamonster's profile is public with the exact same build. One of the hard parts is already done, so I invite you to copy the current #1 Pathfinder build and try to get anywhere close to our times.

And I'll have you know that I CAN die on my runs, as the lab is still quite dangerous for my character. I have lost a couple GG times due to fucking up and dying on a trap because of the extremely low EHP that results from a competitive movement speed build coupled with it requiring low-life. Not only that but traps DO matter, and trap RNG is very important in a #1 speedrun in addition to having the ability to instantly identify what trap you are dealing with and how to get through it the fastest. Many traps involve spikes (which you can't walk through while activated and get stuck in place if hit), specific pathing patterns, and switches with locked doors.

But you wouldn't know about any of the intricacies of competitive Lab Racing, because you've never done it before. When you make at least top 20 and have tried to speedrun the lab yourself, you might be able to form some informed complaints. Until then, you're complaining about something that you know nothing about that doesn't even affect you anyway because you DONT EVEN SPEEDRUN.

Yep competitive lab run lol is designed around pathfinder cheese.

Don't make me laugh when you say it's for everyone.

I will wait and see what "other" class gets to beat Pajamamonster's sub 2 min run.
https://www.pathofexile.com/labyrinth/Perandus/3/1462320000

Funny as fuck somehow I have a feelinhg it's gonna be pathfinder and scion pathfinder.

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Pewzor wrote:

Yep competitive lab run lol is designed around pathfinder cheese.

Don't make me laugh when you say it's for everyone.

I will wait and see what "other" class gets to beat Pajamamonster's sub 2 min run.
https://www.pathofexile.com/labyrinth/Perandus/3/1462320000

Funny as fuck somehow I have a feelinhg it's gonna be pathfinder and scion pathfinder.

His run is actually bugged. Leaderboards have been giving him a ~30 second boost on his runs for whatever reason since the patch, that's why I'm not pushing for time. It's even in the bug forum. Still quite fast, though.

But just because I came up with a super fast build doesn't mean it is the fastest possible in the game. When Leaderboards first came out, Trickster won like 5 days in a row and everyone complained that Trickster was an unbeatable OP Lab running build. Then I came out with the Pathfinder build and now suddenly Pathfinder is the unbeateable OP lab running build. I also made a Raider build, actually, that came quite close to the speed of the pathfinder. I'm sure if I respecced into Raider again I'd still be able to get #2 spot and beat out the other pathfinders higher up on the ladder.

It doesn't matter what class I play, actually, even no class, I'd probably still be able to find a build with it to make top 2 with the current state of the leaderboard times.

Not to mention there is Normal and Cruel, which I don't have time to run, that are completely different metas. Make a build for those, I guarantee the top #1 normal runner's Trickster build is not optimal, and I know for a fact that the cruel runner's build isn't optimal either because I actually started testing a Cruel Lab character (but never finished).

Then there is the hardcore meta and its 3 difficulties, where pathfinder isn't survivable enough to run Merc. and it has its own meta.

You have never even tried to do lab speedruns either, though, so it's understandable that you are misinformed.

Ok i will be waiting for your marauder 2min30s run with no ascendancy since you said class dont matter and no ascendancy needed. Until you did that i cant see you cover your own mouth. Please do that like you said you could, until then I couldn't be misinformed.

Still waiting. Please dont waste my time.

You're buttsore, Pewzor


Anyway if you guys hate movespeed and clearspeed for labyrinth then just put a darkshrine that's 100% guaranteed to spawn near the first room's entrance that always cast's double strength temp chains and makes chilled ground on the entire floor

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demonwing wrote:

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Pewzor wrote:

Yep competitive lab run lol is designed around pathfinder cheese.

Don't make me laugh when you say it's for everyone.

I will wait and see what "other" class gets to beat Pajamamonster's sub 2 min run.
https://www.pathofexile.com/labyrinth/Perandus/3/1462320000

Funny as fuck somehow I have a feelinhg it's gonna be pathfinder and scion pathfinder.

His run is actually bugged. Leaderboards have been giving him a ~30 second boost on his runs for whatever reason since the patch, that's why I'm not pushing for time. It's even in the bug forum. Still quite fast, though.

But just because I came up with a super fast build doesn't mean it is the fastest possible in the game. When Leaderboards first came out, Trickster won like 5 days in a row and everyone complained that Trickster was an unbeatable OP Lab running build. Then I came out with the Pathfinder build and now suddenly Pathfinder is the unbeateable OP lab running build. I also made a Raider build, actually, that came quite close to the speed of the pathfinder. I'm sure if I respecced into Raider again I'd still be able to get #2 spot and beat out the other pathfinders higher up on the ladder.

It doesn't matter what class I play, actually, even no class, I'd probably still be able to find a build with it to make top 2 with the current state of the leaderboard times.

Not to mention there is Normal and Cruel, which I don't have time to run, that are completely different metas. Make a build for those, I guarantee the top #1 normal runner's Trickster build is not optimal, and I know for a fact that the cruel runner's build isn't optimal either because I actually started testing a Cruel Lab character (but never finished).

Then there is the hardcore meta and its 3 difficulties, where pathfinder isn't survivable enough to run Merc. and it has its own meta.

You have never even tried to do lab speedruns either, though, so it's understandable that you are misinformed.

rly brah ? talkin s**t about me ? didn't know u were all-knowing entity.

300% ms is an exageration, you dont need more than 70% ms to be safe, and two health flasks faster regen


mixed with a bit of life regen, it becomes ezpz pzpzpz c_c